I am so in on this pool.
So 1-1-08 is the drop "dead" date?
And this never gets old. I love the debate, even tho in my mind, there really isnt anything to debate.
Dino

 

So Can You Still Get Blizzard's Or Are They All Gone? I Was Thinking Of Getting The Wideout But I Don't Know, You Guys Are Hammering On Them Bad. What Is The Big Difference In Them. If The Blizzard Is So Much Better Can You Still Get Them.

 

Yes you can still get them, for now. Pretty sure parts will be available for 10 years no matter what happens. The guys that are 'hammering" on them all own Blizzards. Something else that often gets left out of this old debate is that all those Blizzard owners at one time, owned a Boss, Western, or Fisher in the past. Something made them switch to Blizzards, and I am reasonably sure they did not all just switch because of the productivity of the Power Plow. If you do some heavy reading on here, you will find that most gave the reasons for switching in other threads.

I think that another reason the XLS and Wideout are taking so much heat is that they have been designed by much larger companies, with more testing facilities, resources, equipment, and $$ backing than the inventors of the Blizzard Power Plow. The inventors of the Power Plow based it on the blades they make for dozers (yes Bulldozers, and they are still making them today) and had to lighten it up to mount on trucks. Compared to the company that invented the Power Plow, Western and Fisher's engineers (one would think) with the patent rights were free to make any changes that would improve their versions of the Power Plow. Based on looks alone, most here do not think they improved much. That remains to be seen. Obviously anyone that was testing either of these plows this past winter is not allowed to discuss it here or any place else for that matter, so that will never happen.

The only part of all this that ticks me off is the marketing of the new plows by both Western and Fisher. In the literature, they both make it sound like they just invented the first expanding plow ever. They both tout features that Blizzard has had all along, making them sound like theirs is the only plow that has them.

And yes, Mods and Admins can see alot of things that go on here that the general Members can't.... Just a for instance, there is a guy from DD that reads here religously, but has never posted. That is fine, nobody has to post. It must be killing him to have to bite his tongue for so long though.

~Chuck

 

it was a rash response but a very funny one at that. I think the net result is zero, making the comment able to stay.

 

Well Arc Maybe not something that would come from me , however you being a mod elsewere know what goes on behind the scenes and this thread has been viewed like 7 whores in the front of a church.

There a thread running what 6 pages or more on the Wideout and XLS so intrest was sparked iam in a postion were i didnt feel i wanted to presue snow this fall and i really dont iam building a route for one of my guys and i want to give the chance for Fisher to shine here. I have read enough from the man himself JM that i shouldnt feel the need to back out of two of my PP's i comitted to sell to two other members my desire is to beable to build a route that my guy can produce revenue for not just him but my company and my equipment, the ony way i can do that is equip a truck with a PP and since this debate has old and stinky has it is need to get put to bed so iam more than willing to but my money on the Fisher XLS that John has promised so much about.

Honestly yellow on Red isnt my first choice but i have to admitt at least John has come on here and been present. Chuck brings up a good point why did alot of us leave DD behind, i did after 13 Westerns and nothing but abuse blamed for everything on a Commerical built plow.

Theres no doubt my lines with the Blizzard Product, the former owners and Jerre Heyer, with them my company for three years striaght posted numbers staggering for three trucks equipped with Blizzard Power plows.

I choose to end it this year, and it gives a great chance for me to be proven to that the very company that bought from the people i sat with ate with and talked with directly when there was problems proves they have built the same said product.

Has Far has my comments there all buss iam not trying to stir the pot i want to see all i have been told.

 

Theres a thread running what 6 pages or more on the Wideout and XLS so....

Actually 18 pages, 439 replies, and 12,882 views.

~Chuck

 

I'm in for the party! Don't care which plow you go with, the difference is kinda like Chevy vs GMC. I'm just totally opposed to the current business practice of a holding company buying out a decent product and then trimming it to the bone so the stockholders are the only ones seeing anything good. Would be nice to see what happens either way.

 

Alan

Truly the choice to go Fisher is soley because of John Murphys presents here, honestly since in his own words said the XLS had advantages over the wide out which confuses me, i want to stay with John has he brought the only verbal corp voice to this site.

The one week each tech support that DD did here each year hardly addressed true issues and i always viewed it has smoke and mirrors. I give alot of criedt to Chuck for not presuing that this past season.

My true hopes are not for the Fisher to fail it truly isnt, has much has people seem to think thats my intent, Alan you put it best though has iam afraid the very core of what was a good concept has been changed to please stockholders, and sadly enough doing that at a small buss owners expense is a costly mistake.

I will run our 97 with a Monroe plow has a back up just in case.

Has far has this getting personal it should not, one willing to lay out the money to provide a active member base of 3500 plus professional plowers is a benift for the poss future buyers.

Has far has friendships go my relationship with Jerre will never change short of being blood i couldnt trust or have more respect for someone than him with that said, with the help of Chuck., Alan, Jerre, and poss Peter we have decided to have the install done by the book at Jerre's shop later this summer we will viedo and take pics to prove not mods were made.

That said if during the season the reponse is nil from Fisher on damage or warr concerns , again like the Erie special i will fund Jerre to make ness changes to make the XLS a productive plow.

Jerre stated in a earyler post that many if not all of the upgrades that were made in Erie were going to be production adds if Niemala's would not have sold. If theres members here that feel slighted because of Erie and the whole program you have 80 plus Erie owners to talk to.

 

Hey Wiz.

"Deserved, maybe. As a mod, I'm sure Fred get's sick of reading some of the smart ass posts by some of these members, and I think I can understand why Fred reacted as such."

How do you figure? I have never given Fred a hard time about anything ever to my knowledge. If he's upset at somebody else, or isn't feeling well is no justification to rank on me.

"There should be no doubt in anyone's mind who's been here a while that DJ is die hard Fisher, and Fred is die hard Blizzard, there's going to be a little tension whenever anyone thinks "theirs" is better. The difference between these two die hards is that Fred is willing to try the Fisher product, but I have yet to see one of the loudest talkers here (yes you DJ) welcome a Blizzard into his fleet so he can see what all the fuss is about. Instead, some of these die hards will continue to stand up for what they believe in, even though they've never tried what they're trying so hard to bury. It's like a kid that wont eat his broccoli cuz he dont like it even though he's never tried it..."


Do I like Fisher? Yes. Do I try to cram it down others throats? No.

Where did I ever say that I wouldn't try Blizzard? :beatsme Truth be known, and I do believe that I have alluded to this in a post or two(if not it was in a pm to Jerre), I have been considering trying one on my next new truck.

The only thing that I think I am guilty of is being skeptical about some of the claims made by some memebers about the Blizzards. All I did was ask how and what some of the claims were based on to see if they were an honest comparison in an effort to learn.

Exclusive of playful banter back and forth with people like MarkO I honestly feel that I go to great lengths not to purposefully bash or insult Blizzards or their owners. If I have done something different, point it out to me and I'll apologize.

I don't know where all the hostility toward me came from in this thread. I didn't get up on a Fisher :soapbox and preach, hell I didn't say a thing about Fisher or Blizzard. I didn't stoop down and take any shots at anybody about this. All I did was try to get people to cut John a little slack on why he may not have been replying, that's it. I'm sorry if I didn't have the inside track like Fred does on when he comes and goes.


You callin me loud, that takes the :b-day

 

Do I like Fisher? Yes. Do I try to cram it down others throats? No.

Where did I ever say that I wouldn't try Blizzard? Truth be known, and I do believe that I have alluded to this in a post or two(if not it was in a pm to Jerre), I have been considering trying one on my next new truck.

The only thing that I think I am guilty of is being skeptical about some of the claims made by some memebers about the Blizzards. All I did was ask how and what some of the claims were based on to see if they were an honest comparison in an effort to learn.

Exclusive of playful banter back and forth with people like MarkO I honestly feel that I go to great lengths not to purposefully bash or insult Blizzards or their owners. If I have done something different, point it out to me and I'll apologize.

I don't know where all the hostility toward me came from in this thread. I didn't get up on a Fisher soapbox and preach, hell I didn't say a thing about Fisher or Blizzard. I didn't stoop down and take any shots at anybody about this. All I did was try to get people to cut John a little slack on why he may not have been replying, that's it. I'm sorry if I didn't have the inside track like Fred does on when he comes and goes.

You callin me loud, that takes the cake

DJ, I never meant to

you. Sorry if you took it as such. As for being die hard fisher and not wanting to try a blizzard, this is my impressions from your replies in past threads. If I mis-interpreted them, I'm sorry. If we want to play hard ball, we can go dig them up, but I dont see the need. As far as you trying a blizzard, news to me, musta missed that part...

Not sure about hostility, I'm not hostile, are you? :huh

C'mon, you're loud... :wink No one ever overlooks any of your posts, just like no one overlooks Mark's. Just too damn good cheap entertainment!

 

Big Dog, its not privy info. Just click on the members name (last post or members list) then click public profile. It will tell last log on date and time. You cant see were they been (thats privy) unless there online. click on "currently active members" on the bottom of the page, it will show were there at, at that time. There ya go.
How the heck do ya think I kept an eye on the Father (when he didnt post, or wasnt up to return my many calls) this past winter when he was so sick. :wink I knew if he was loging on he was not in Ann Arbor.

 

"Well chief we see something you dont , has Mods hes been visting on a regular daily basis"
I interpret this to say "as mods, we see that he has been visiting on a regular daily basis" there fore something regular members aren't privy to. I would imagine that they can even tell if you visit from the computer you regularaly use even if you are not logged in by looking at the IP# thinagamajigy.

Am I wrong? :beatsme

 

The mods can see everything, you can as a member see when people log on.
Just thought I would let ya know that info is "public". Not trying to ruffle feathers.
Fred was stating they know who reads what, and when. When there is no replys then ya wonder about peoples honest intentions. Like Chuck has stated before there are tons of manufactures here, under allyiss's what ever.
None of them post, John did in the past.
Im sure most of them are reading this thread as well

 

I can certainly understand why many in the North east like the trip edge plow. It has alot to due with full trip plows folding like a deck a cards when the slop hits.
With the blizzard it just isnt the case. The plow is heavy enough and cuts good enough that folding over isnt really an issue. Not to say you can run 10' on the first pass, but after the initial pass, you can run her almost wide open. Plus does anyone here in fisher country really believe that wet heavy snow only happens in our areas? I am sure Fred and Jerre get the slop up their areas , if if there was a shortfall with the blizzards that would have been mentioned at some point.
Much like many wont run a full trip v plow, I wouldnt run a trip edge expanding plow.
I came from running trip edge plows for 14 yrs and never cared for a full trip plow. But like many things the blizzard has changed my opinion of what productive plow is.

Dino

 

Yes blizzards are still available, and the major differences are the blizzard is a proven product. whereas the western and fisher entries seem to be a poor knock off of a better design.
Alot has been said about the new plows, but until they are tested under real world conditions, the jury is still way out.
Dino

 

Lets just wipe the slate clean here. No pointing fingers from here on out. Fred's buying a plow, and we are going to find out if it performs the way most Blizzard owners think it looks. It might, and it might not. We'll find out. opcorn2

~Chuck

 

I don't think you'll ever see the support from Fisher that you received from Blizzard. I'm a Fisher fan, or was, and their complete lack of product support in the last four years or so (see my previous posts on the Pro-caster) has convinced me that they are no longer a Maine company. They are only worried about money at this point, building the best product on the market is a distance third or fourth on their priority list.

I would love to see them pony-up here and put their money where their BS has been. If they have nothing to worry about, they would have jumped on this.

Either way Fred, I'm in on the pool. I know several other guys around Sebago that have asked me about the "new" Fisher, I'm telling them all to keep their money in their wallet 'till this little test run is complete.

 

Alan that is the thing about co's once they grow and get big they are never the same no mater how much they say they are service oriented. Money is the bottom line .the co gets to big and needs to see the figure in order to stay afloat . I can say this when i got my timbrens they bent over backwards to help with a problem I had and did any time I had one,maybe because it was not a $1K-2K-or 5K product but they still came down and looked at it or took my word and tryed to fix it. not like other co's .

 

Holy Moses! Sorry guys. Been away for a couple of weeks. We shut the 'ol plow factory down during the 4th of July week and tune things up. Took another week after that for vacation, so haven't been able to check in.

Some of the guys here have been watching this thing and gave me a heads-up that I was a "wanted man".

Give me a while to review all of this and I'll be back at you. Hope you're all enjoying your summer - even though we're all in the business we're in, I think we'd all agree summer's too short in this neck of the woods.

 

Most of us here would argue it's too long.

 

John seems to have forgotten what site this is already... Somebody take his shovel away before he gets any deeper! :wink

 

John, knew you were shut down for the holiday week. The guys need a break once a while so why not a nice holiday week for them.

Hope you had a good vacation too. Getting out of Maine or staying close to home time away with family is time well spent.

Some of the guys are getting a little snow deprived already. Some of them are still feeling the effects of the last two winters. Hopefully this winter helps them all out.

J

 

Must be Jerre - Wizard's now copying other people's quotes and trying to pass them off as mine.

 

John, I was referring to your quote of summer being too short, and quoted DJ's as I was agreeing with him. Your statement generally goes over like a lead balloon on a site filled with snow enthusiasts. Regardless of how you interpreted my comments, they were intended in friendly spirit. Lets get over it and get back to the task at hand, there are many here patiently awaiting your response to Fred's proposition.

 

John

Well a week has gone by and iam sure you have got up to speed on what iam proposing, i feel a little slighted at this point because i know you have read this thread.

We are not trying to make a mockery here just want to test your plow up here in snow country its a great chance to see some honest input from a end user.

What scares me the most about this deal is lack of response one of the reasons my company switched from all westerns to Blizzards.

The member base here is made up of some very professional operations and iam sure they too are wondering why we cant seem to agree on this test.

If i end up funding this test it will be on my terms, and if mid season changes need to be made i will pass on the warr and use the very resourses that made Blizzards dependable for the condtions up here.

thank you

 

What do you want him to say?What are you looking for here?This is a joke,give it a rest,buy the plow,don't buy the plow,there's no snow on the damn ground,why beat this horse?
1st generation Blizzards sucked,it happens who cares?luckily there was a dealer smart enough to make them work.
This is the kind of childish thread i would expect on "another" site,not here,by all means,run your test,give us the results,I know you will tell the truth good or bad but till snow flys......

 

the truth good or bad but till snow flys......

What? Shut up? go ahead say it speak for 3500 members and god knows how many vistors. Childish? i think not its buss all buss.

What do i want him to say? i want a promise from him that there will be support, the same support from the people who made the orginal pat on this type of plow.

Sponsorship ------ you refer to another site when you refer to me has childish. Let me ask you a question Arc a buss question you own a repair shop if you are gonna spend money to advertise are you gonna spend it on snow plow repair in in TX ? the other site your refering to see's this corp sponsor with a average age range of 22yrs old, iam not saying theres not 22yr olds capable of but how many do you fig are gonna drop 6k for a plow?

Ask Jerre Heyer if Chucks fee has paid for itself in sponsership money selling 80 plus modded units at a average of 6k per unit.

Again you can call me anything you want, i want a fair and bal test of this plow in a snow belt area , so iam fronting the money, i sold my blizzards so this will be my main money maker has i have stated wanting to know John will not go casper on me during this test is all iam asking and sponsorship.

Normally when someone tells me to shut up i would consider it however we are speaking to thoasands not a dozen or so.

Back to advertising i recently pusrchased a radio Block for the auto repair buss i had to pick the stations i would be on , what stations Arc do you think i went with ? Help me answer that question.

 

Wow, you guys sure stirred up a **** storm, all without me. That's OK, I was enjoying my vacation. :wink You guys really need to wait until I have better computer access so I can pick on DJ as well, but you did a great job with out me.

Anyways, count me in too. I'd love to see a real world test of the new, latest and greatest invention in the world, an expanding plow. The chain will just be the icing on the cake. :jk

For you guys out east that swear by trip edge for your wet, heavy snows; could you explain why trip edge plows are not as widely used out west with the Sierra cement? Neither Howard nor Scott are using trip edge, and whether you like it or not, they plow a crap load more snow than you do.

Having used all brands--not really a Western V, but I have had 2 Fisher V's, so basically the same thing--I think I have some fairly good experience with all of them. I am more than willing to admit that the reason I switched to Fisher from Boss is because Boss V's are not a long term plow. I thought and still believe that a trip edge is the only type V plow to use. Every Boss I owned had tweaked wings and torn hinges within the first couple seasons. And the problems continued from there. I had basically ZERO problems with my Fishers, any problems were operator related as opposed to just a bad design as I consider the Boss to be. This was after I can't remember how many seasons with Boss V's, somewhere in the neighborhood of 30. I did not get nearly that much use out of my Fishers as I started switching to Blizzard's because I finally got over my stubborn Dutch nature and tried one. Best move I ever made.

I have a different view on the whole dealer backup\warranty thing however. Warranty doesn't do me squat at 3 AM when it's snowing to beat the band and my plow is broke. I could give a **** less whether it's a 5 minute or 5 decade warranty, it doesn't fix my plow. Besides that, 9 times out of 10 you're going to hear the BS from the dealer, distributor of factory "It was abuse and not covered".

Enter Jerre's Service and the Erie Special.

The point that I think Fred is trying to make is: Why in God's green earth after having a dang near bullet proof plow in addition to knowing what Jerre, Thomas and Fred and whoever else was involved in the Erie Special did DD screw it up? Everything is there already and has been and it's proven. I will readily admit to being in on the questioning and telling DD that I would love to have a trip edge expandable plow, IF POSSIBLE, but I didn't see how it could be possible and after seeing what DD did to 'make it possible' IMHO they made a huge mistake. I might eat my words, and you know I will be the first to admit I am wrong, but my prediction is that the XLS and WideOut will have some major problems the first year.

Arc Burn, you are correct, the first gen Blizzards were a disaster, but Niemalas fixed the problems not sure if it was with or with out J's advice, but they did make the changes. Why not build on something proven? That's not even getting into all the scraping advantages of a Blizzard.

 

I might eat my words, and you know I will be the first to admit I am wrong, but my prediction is that the XLS and WideOut will have some major problems the first year.

Something tells me they know they are going to have problems in the first year, but isn't that part of the learning process? Don't we all learn from our mistakes? Aren't we all always striving to improve upon what we currently have?

Why do they need to copy the Blizzard? They are trying to develop something that is going to appeal to the vast majority of the consumers
in their target market area (ie trip edge technology in the North East). Them building full trip plows would be like me going out to the Mid West and trying to sell V-box spreaders and make a fortune doing it...........it's not going to happen because it's not what the people want.

The Fisher XLS in my opinion is being introduced as a homeowner/light duty plow. They aren't pushing it as a commercial unit and I for one think that Fred using it commercially is going to greatly increase the chances of it failing, to be frank I'll be surprized if it holds up at all and it won't be a result of them beating it to a purposefull failure. Keep in mind I haven't even seen the XLS other than pics and the promotional DVD.

In my opinion they kept it to the homeowner segment to let them be the beta testers of this new technology, the expandable trip edge plow. I believe that in 3 years +/- they will have it down to the point that they will develop a commercial grade wide-out product will be equal to or possible even rival that of the Blizzard.

Go ahead.......fire up the flame throwers!!!!

 

Fred,your the master at putting words in my mouth,I NEVER told you to shut up,you did this in your PM also and i corrected you there to.Calm down,this isn't personal,I just feel your hyping it abit here,thats all,like i said run the test and tell us your honest opinion,i know you will,good or bad.
There's no sarcasm or cheap shots in this post so don't turn it into that.
I mentioned in the PM my respect for you and all you've overcome and i'll do it again publicly rite now.
lets not take this to a personal level,we are both professionals here,this has gone way off course and i apologize,i'll continue in PM's if you wish.

 

Ok this is making even less sense to me. Why would Fisher/Western make a homeowner grade plow that's designed to move significant quantities of snow and weighs nealy 1000lbs and can only be mounted up to a 3/4 ton HD truck or bigger. Most homeowners run 1/2 tons. But I suppose, if this is the case, I should be able to hang one on the Expedition the right? No flaming DJ, just trying to make some sense of all this.

I guess the truth will come out if/when John replies... opcorn2

 

If you go on to Fishers website most of their descriptions on the different modles will tell you what their application is intended for if you look at the LD it will say non commercial, the RD series says "RD snowplow is perfect for homeowners, small businesses and light commercial plowing applications", the HD says "HD Series plows will withstand the rigors of any and all commercial applications" the XLS says "XLS delivers a new level of profitable performance in every plowing situation"

It never goes so far as to say commercial applications, so my guess is that they will say that it wasn't designed for commercial use. Just my thoughts, observations and interpretations