Protest
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Seems like who would really care about having GPS unless it is a requirement by the state which mean the contractor has to pay for the install of new equipment. Although if it means you are going to get work from the state I guess you have to decide if the investment is worth the business. Unless of course people are telling the state they were somewhere they were not with equipement that was not ever there. Not that anyone would be trying to scame a Gov't agency.
While I only do commercail work is a client tell me the proformance requirement change I can either rebid the new requirements or move on to a different client. Seems like the same thing to me, but I bet there is someone out there that has already installed the GPS and is paying someone off to get the requirements to change. Hoevever, that is without hearing the entire story.
So maybe someone from on of those states can tell the rest of us what is going on???
While I only do commercail work is a client tell me the proformance requirement change I can either rebid the new requirements or move on to a different client. Seems like the same thing to me, but I bet there is someone out there that has already installed the GPS and is paying someone off to get the requirements to change. Hoevever, that is without hearing the entire story.
So maybe someone from on of those states can tell the rest of us what is going on???
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6,272 Posts
If I had to pay to have this stuff put in my truck I would not If they want to give it to me I would probably take it unless like you said I was saying X amout of equipment is on and it's over sitting in my yard then I would like to not have it in my trucks .
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DISCLAIMER: This is without knowing the entire story.
I am just thinking all these years I hear how people make tons of money plowing for the State, which ever state that might be, and with the talk of most states cutting back on there roadway services here in the midwest where there is no contracting of state roads, why should people be allowed to get away with over fraud billing. In the smaller towns where contractors are used it is easy to see what equipment, where and when, but on state roads where large equipment is being used who would you manage and QC that operation??
I am sure there at plenty of guys doing it all by the book, but just one bad apple..... when you know the saying.
IMO it is just like a client asking for NWS comformation of snowfall totals with all billing. For the pricing and type of work I am doing I do not have time to be waiting for the NWS reports before I start plowing. So I just do not bid this type of client. That simple.
I am just thinking all these years I hear how people make tons of money plowing for the State, which ever state that might be, and with the talk of most states cutting back on there roadway services here in the midwest where there is no contracting of state roads, why should people be allowed to get away with over fraud billing. In the smaller towns where contractors are used it is easy to see what equipment, where and when, but on state roads where large equipment is being used who would you manage and QC that operation??
I am sure there at plenty of guys doing it all by the book, but just one bad apple..... when you know the saying.
IMO it is just like a client asking for NWS comformation of snowfall totals with all billing. For the pricing and type of work I am doing I do not have time to be waiting for the NWS reports before I start plowing. So I just do not bid this type of client. That simple.
as much as I know the whole issue is the GPS. Its just a tracking method at no additional cost to the contractor. and as mentioned its just to make sure people are doing what they say so they are not home sleeping and getting taxpayer money.
I am not against it.
Dean
I am not against it.
Dean
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Granted, I live in MN, so this doesn't affect me, but I wouldn't mind at all if my boss would know where I am. Cause I AM NOT CHEATING HIM!! I can see a little of the big brother argument, but if you want a job, it's almost always on the employer's terms. If you don't like the terms, don't take the job. What would you chant at a protest? How would the signs read?
"He** no- you can't know" (where we are)
"Don't make us accountable!!"
"Overpaid and Underworked- let's keep it that way!"
"Don't motivate us to increase productivity, we like sleeping on the clock!"
Sounds like the state of Mass. is just using technology to excercise good cost management. It wouldn't be frowned upon in the private sector, why is it such a big deal for independant contractors of the DOT?
"He** no- you can't know" (where we are)
"Don't make us accountable!!"
"Overpaid and Underworked- let's keep it that way!"
"Don't motivate us to increase productivity, we like sleeping on the clock!"
Sounds like the state of Mass. is just using technology to excercise good cost management. It wouldn't be frowned upon in the private sector, why is it such a big deal for independant contractors of the DOT?
If it was at no costs to me i would have no problem.Gps is just a way to track and make sure they are actually out doing their job.All it takes is one bad apple to ruin the bunch.Plus if something were to happen such as an accident and you cant get intouch with anyone they can track you and send out help. just my opinion.
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Upon looking back over my post, I need to amend it.
I'm not a fan of big government, but in this case, I don't think that's the issue. In my retail store, I have one obviously present and three hidden cameras watching our assets in different ways. A couple on the register drawers, one across the counter that shows the sales floor and the door, and one over the 'safe'. (a lockable, fireproof file cabinet) I've already busted one unsuspecting fellow trying to lighten the bank bag in the safe, and I caught him on the hidden camera. All from the comfort of the computer in my office. How is GPS tracking of employees (state or otherwise) any different? The opposing question is: "what's next?" (then fill in your favorite sci-fi conspiracy)
Well, frankly, it doesn't matter what's next- and as am employer, I don't think there's anything wrong with this. And if you don't want someone to know where you are, don't take a job that requires you to carry a gps-enabled phone.
Guys who run more than one truck and have hired drivers, I have a question for you:
How many times have you assigned a known 4-hour route that took 5 or 6? They say they hit traffic? (their route was on sideroads) They ran low on fuel? (but the tank is empty and they didn't turn in a receipt) They got their finger stuck in... (but it doesn't smell as bad as it should) What ever the excuse is- it doesn't jive, but you can't prove it. How great would it be to just hit a button in the office and see where they've been!?? Tallk about cutting the fluff out! Sounds good to me, I just wish it were a small-scale-affordable technology.
I'm not a fan of big government, but in this case, I don't think that's the issue. In my retail store, I have one obviously present and three hidden cameras watching our assets in different ways. A couple on the register drawers, one across the counter that shows the sales floor and the door, and one over the 'safe'. (a lockable, fireproof file cabinet) I've already busted one unsuspecting fellow trying to lighten the bank bag in the safe, and I caught him on the hidden camera. All from the comfort of the computer in my office. How is GPS tracking of employees (state or otherwise) any different? The opposing question is: "what's next?" (then fill in your favorite sci-fi conspiracy)
Well, frankly, it doesn't matter what's next- and as am employer, I don't think there's anything wrong with this. And if you don't want someone to know where you are, don't take a job that requires you to carry a gps-enabled phone.
Guys who run more than one truck and have hired drivers, I have a question for you:
How many times have you assigned a known 4-hour route that took 5 or 6? They say they hit traffic? (their route was on sideroads) They ran low on fuel? (but the tank is empty and they didn't turn in a receipt) They got their finger stuck in... (but it doesn't smell as bad as it should) What ever the excuse is- it doesn't jive, but you can't prove it. How great would it be to just hit a button in the office and see where they've been!?? Tallk about cutting the fluff out! Sounds good to me, I just wish it were a small-scale-affordable technology.
From what I have read, the GPS requirement is to be paid for by the plowing contractor, not by the state.
But that is not the only issue. The bigger issue seems to be payment for services. There is a clause in the contract that if the state finds that you did not use the GPS system properly on even one event, then you forfeit any money owed to you by the state. This is a big deal when the state can take months and months to pay.
Lots of guys get secured loans for upward of 100K because they need it to live on, and their money does not come quick with the state. However, the banks will no longer approve loans secured on the money owed by the state if there is a possibility that the state will not have to pay because of the failure to properly use the GPS. So what happens if you lose the GPS? or it breaks during a storm? They may understand, but they also have the contract that says they can deny payment of money you already earned.
This is what I have heard about in the contracts, with this in mind, I am personally against the contracts and the GPS. Take out the payment part and have the state pay for the GPS and I would be ok with it.
But that is not the only issue. The bigger issue seems to be payment for services. There is a clause in the contract that if the state finds that you did not use the GPS system properly on even one event, then you forfeit any money owed to you by the state. This is a big deal when the state can take months and months to pay.
Lots of guys get secured loans for upward of 100K because they need it to live on, and their money does not come quick with the state. However, the banks will no longer approve loans secured on the money owed by the state if there is a possibility that the state will not have to pay because of the failure to properly use the GPS. So what happens if you lose the GPS? or it breaks during a storm? They may understand, but they also have the contract that says they can deny payment of money you already earned.
This is what I have heard about in the contracts, with this in mind, I am personally against the contracts and the GPS. Take out the payment part and have the state pay for the GPS and I would be ok with it.
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When you're doing a job you love (and who doesn't love plowing) why would you care if you are being tracked. If you hate your job and could be caught goofing off, your employer might be doing you a favour by releasing you to go out and find that job that you'll love. Unless you hate work, there's a job out there that you will enjoy, I've yet to find one I didn't enjoy, including working in a rendering plant. 
:cash
:cash
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The real issue here is the large contractors who have any where from 20 to maybe 150 trucks on with the state have the biggest problems with the entire system. As Drobson has posted if the driver fails to activate the system properly then they don't get paid simple and pretty unfair if you ask me. The large contractors might have five drivers out of 150 that fail to activate the system but at around 100 per hour in a 10 hour shift thats five grand that he's out, plus by law he has to pay the drivers whether or not he gets paid. What this really comes down to is the state needs to find highway personnel who won't cheat or let others cheat the state out of money since most of the waste and out right fraud is well known and is accepted as part of the cost of doing business. The guys driving the yellow state trucks (2wd pickups) are the ones who are supposed to keep an eye on all the contractors and be certain that they do what they are paid for, but some them have also worked out side deals with others for a little "extra pay". My uncle, who has plowed for the state and will plow for them even with the GPS since he doesn't cheat anyone and actually needs the money to pay the bills told me an interesting story about fraud. According to what he was told a contractor who salts and plows for the state had a little deal with a yard foreman who signed off on his time sheet even when he was not only not there but there was NO SNOW!! When the state checked the records they found out that in one month he billed for more hours then was possible to work in a month I personnaly was told by one of the foreman in the yellow trucks that they are already trying to find ways to cheat the system and its not even working yet?
Bottom line for me is the state needs to worry about its own employees first and that will solve much of the problem here and pay people within a reasonable amount of time. Some contractors feel that if the state is going to take six months to pay them then why shouldn't they take "extras" when they can?
I personnaly was told by one of the foreman in the yellow trucks that they are already trying to find ways to cheat the system and its not even working yet? Bottom line for me is the state needs to worry about its own employees first and that will solve much of the problem here and pay people within a reasonable amount of time. Some contractors feel that if the state is going to take six months to pay them then why shouldn't they take "extras" when they can?
it's my understanding that the state is providing the phone with the software on it. i dont believe theres any cost for the contractor. one of the features with this software is that it is a TIMECLOCK as well. they keep track of your hours worked by you logging in and out of the phone. not any different than punching a clock. since it's a nextel phone (the i58 which is made to MIL spec) it wont break.drobson said:
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4,017 Posts
Why is it a big issue for your boss- state, gov. private contractor
whomever to know what your doing? Prime example: The weekend of the nov. 21 first was the deer opener in wi. I came back on the 26th. When 2 employees turned there time cards for last week they claimed they actually had overtime!!!:headwall
I was at the jobsite last monday and they did very little if anything in 3 days. Should I pay them? Yes, I have too by law. I had a little talk with them and they stuck too there guns. Sure wish I would have had gps in there trucks. Im a small carpentry contractor, this cost me a couple grand. Not only do I get to pay them for doing nothing but the feds, the state, and workers comp. Sweet deal for me eh.
I vote for gps, Im tired of gettin bent over the barrel by everyone.
T
whomever to know what your doing? Prime example: The weekend of the nov. 21 first was the deer opener in wi. I came back on the 26th. When 2 employees turned there time cards for last week they claimed they actually had overtime!!!:headwall
I was at the jobsite last monday and they did very little if anything in 3 days. Should I pay them? Yes, I have too by law. I had a little talk with them and they stuck too there guns. Sure wish I would have had gps in there trucks. Im a small carpentry contractor, this cost me a couple grand. Not only do I get to pay them for doing nothing but the feds, the state, and workers comp. Sweet deal for me eh.
I vote for gps, Im tired of gettin bent over the barrel by everyone.
T
Re: Hmmmmmmmmmmm
anyway no one will be able to track you if the software on the phone isn't running, they will, however, know that your not logged in
look under "java applications" the software is called mTracker or mComet i can't remember.....gordyo said:
anyway no one will be able to track you if the software on the phone isn't running, they will, however, know that your not logged in
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