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Discussion Starter #1
I got pulled over today, the cop was just checking for yellow safety inspection stickers on the truck and trailer and he was more concerned with the Registered Gross Vehicle Weight on my ownership. He din't even want to see my insurance or CVOR slip. He said everything was fine but I may have a hard time from the MTO guys for not having a log book but he was not sure if I had to have one. I thought if it mostly city driving one was not needed. Do any of you guy know if I need a log book? If so what do they look like and where can I get one? Could I even make my own up?

Ray
 

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Ray, What are you driving,and whats your CGVWR?
That would help... alot!

and you can get log books at any truck stop
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Sorry, it is just a light duty 3/4 ton pick-up and a tandem 6.5 X 12 landscape trailer. The GVW on the the truck is 7200 lbs and the trailer is about 7000 lbs. I have them registered for about 12000 lbs(5500kg).
 

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A log book for a pick up and a small trailer what a joke. I think those cops are on that crack stuff. I would think they should be checking out the big rigs or maybe they are the pansi patrol and check all the hundies and small trucks .. :rolleyes: :eek:
 

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I'm not sure about the Canadian regs, but here if a you have a GVWR of over 10,001 lbs and is reg. to a business, then you have to have a USDOT#.
No log book or CDL is req. until you reach 26,001+lbs. and then if you are local, no log book is required, but "local" is an iffy topic...
 

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Ray

First thing I see is that if you in Canada not sure that US DOT rules apply to you.

In the US is you are staying in state and traveling less than 100 or 150 miles I forget which from home base you don't need a log book

Also if your trailer is under 10,000 then you dont need to worry about it. IF it was the most you might need is a medical card.

Now if you going out of state you do need a log book, but again only if your trailer is over 10,000...

Also do you have the truck and trailer reg together or seperatly?

A question for you is what is your CVOR slip and what is the MTO guys?

Pete
 

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Discussion Starter #7
gslam 88

CVOR stands for Commercial Vehicle Operators Registration, they keep track of a company driving/safety records. MTO is the Ministry of Transportation, I would assume that it is similar to your DOT. The truck and trailer are registered separtaly but the combined weight is on the trucks ownership. In other words the sticker on the door says the truck has a GVW of 7200lbs but the ownership has a GVW of 12,000lbs. The trailers ownership says 7000lbs.

All of this just haul around a few lawnmowers, at times I think I might be better off with a little single axle trailer then I wouldn't have to bother with all this red tape.
 

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Ray,.

With us the gross weight on the vehicle and the trailer that is it... there is not a combo of the 2 that excedes either.

CVOR is just like our FMCSA. federal motor carrier saftey administration

Pete
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Pete

It is my understanding that if the combined weight is over 4500kg(10,000) then it is considered a heavy truck.
 

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Ray

CVOR requirements are based on the registered GVW on the ownership.You can have a truck with a GWVR rated more that 4500 KG,but register it for less than that to avoid requiring a CVOR.Yours is registered at 5000 KG,and it seems as if you already have a CVOR.You are required to have a log book,and fill it out everyday,as per CVOR guidelines.If MTO stops you,they will want to see it,even if your not over the 4500 KG at the time.Once you get the CVOR,you gotta do the log book thing everyday.

You must pick you registered GVW based on the max weight you will ever be at.If you are registered for 4000 KG,and they pull you over at 4100,they will write you up.There is no leeway for one time stuff,or occasional loading beyond the registered GVW.

If the combined wieght of your truck,cargo,trailer,and mowers is less than 4500 KG,then drop your registered GVW to under that,and save yourself the CVOR deal.It will save you on sticker prices too,as it goes by weight as well.If not,then you better pickup some log books,and start filling them out.
 

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Forgot to add,the weights used for calculating CVOR requirements,and for registered GVW on your ownership are actual weights,not the GVWR on the door sticker or the trailer.
 

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ray,

here are the breakdowns as I know them

Class 1 -- 1 to 6,ooo lbs
class 2 -- 6001 to 10,000 lbs
class 3 -- 10,001 to 14,000 lbs
class 4 -- 14,001 to 16,000 lbs
class 5 --- 16,001 to 19,500 lbs
class 6 -- 19,501 to 26,000 lbs
class 7 -- 26001 to 33,000 lbs
class 8 -- 33,001 to 150,000 lbs

so depending on how you look at it a 10,000lb truck is more like a light duty...



Pete
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Chris

Do you have a sample page of a log book? Where can I purchase one? Could I simply just get notebook and everyday write down the milage at the start and end of the day? Here is another question for you Chris. Am I required to stop at scales if I'm just driving the truck by itself?

I thought about lowering the registered weight but the odd(very odd) time I might pull the tractor or borrow my buddy's skid-steer.

Ray
 

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I'll see if I can dig up a sample page Ray.The books are available all over the place,mostly at truck shops\stops.They are also available online at the Ontario trucking association website here

Just writing down the mileage every day isn't enough.The log books are pretty detailed,with a lot of visual checks to be done.Be careful just checking everything off without looking at it,because MTO will go over them with a fine tooth comb.They will fine you for incorrect log book.or missing log book entries.You are also supposed to keep other detailed records\logs regarding drivers\accidents\log book checking etc.It's a lot of work to tow a trailer with a bobcat the odd time.

Stopping at the scales with a pickup is rediculous.I wouldn't bother.I don't know of any of the guys running pickups with a CVOR that stop at any scales.Never heard of anyone being tracked down for bypassing them either.

The last time I spoke with MTO,I specifically asked about your situation,where a person may have his truck registered for lets say 9500 lbs,as he never uses his truck at that weight.Just once he hooks up a friends trailer,with a tractor on it,and his combined GVWR is now 15,000 lbs.If MTO pulled him over,he would be in big trouble,as he is now running overweight as per registered gross,and running without a CVOR.But.....the chances of MTO catching you that one or two times is highly unlikely.

Not that I like recommending you do anything illegal,but I would drop your registered GVW to just under 10K (or under 4500 KG),so you don't need a CVOR,and all the hassle involved.Then take your chances if you borrow a tractor or skid steer,as I highly doubt MTO will manage to pull you over that one time.

It's kind of a stupid regulation.They should move the limits for a CVOR upwards,so that most guys running pickups are not effected,or required to get a CVOR.It's already enough with the annual inspection stickers for trucks\trailers.They already have an exemption for RV's or recreational trailers.Just about anyone can jump behind the wheel of a one-ton,with a 20,000 lb trailer behind them,and drive it anywhere,no CVOR required.

Maybe that's the trick.Buy an old recreational trailer,and put a hidden door in the back for your mowers\tractors\skid steers.No CVOR or weight restrictions then. ;)
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Let's say I lowered it 4499 kg and didn't bother with CVOR or the yellow stickers anymore. Would I then be getting puller over on a regular basis because cops/MTO don't see the yellow stickers on my truck? This was the first time I got checked and have been pulling a tandem trailer for over 5 years.
 

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You could lower it to 4499,and then you wouldn't require a CVOR.You will still probably need your annual inspection stickers for the truck,and the trailer.

If your driving just the truck,and your registered GVW,your actual GVWR,or the actual loaded weight,are under 4500 KG,then you don't need an annual inspection sticker.If any one of those figures is above 4500 KG,you need the sticker.You would be OK without one,as your registered GVW would be 4499,and no way your GVWR or actual weight is above that (unless your way overloaded).Until you add the trailer......... :rolleyes:

If the combined GVW of the truck and trailer,the GVWR of the truck and trailer,or the actual wieght of the truck and trailer exceed 4500 KG,then you now need your stickers for BOTH.

The only way around it is this.If the actual weight transmitted to the ground by the trailer wheels (loaded) is LESS than 2800 KG (6170 lbs),then the trailer is not included in the weight calculation.

So does your trailer,loaded with everything weigh less than 2800 KG ? Find out,hit a scale,and see.If it doesn't,there are ways around it.You have probably seen a lot of single,and tandem axle trailers with the wheels mounted at the rear.They are really tongue heavy,which puts more weight on the hitch\truck,and less on the axles.You can use smaller axles,smaller tires,and get away from annual inspection stickers and a CVOR.The drawback is more tongue weight,which puts more strain on the rear of the truck,and decreases handling and braking qualities of the trailer.

If you do come in less than 2800 KG,then you don't need a sticker for the trailer either.

This could be a big money saver for ya,so check it out.You could drop your CVOR,and both inspection stickers.

Man this stuff is confusing eh ? I'm suprised I haven't died from a massive brain fart yet trying to remember all this stuff. :D
 

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Discussion Starter #17
You're right this is confusing! I will have to find a scale. It is possible that the trailer loaderd is less than 2800kg, the equipment is max 1200 kg and I would think the trailer itself wouldn't be more than 1000 kg. Just when I think I have everything covered I hear about another regulation I didn't know about. I would save $200-$300 a year between the inspections and the extra $ for the plate sticker if I was under the weight.

Thanks Chris you have been a big help again.

Ray
 

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Ray

I did some double checking this AM to verify the information I gave you.Part of it is incorrect,and just wanted to clarify.

The part about not requiring a CVOR if your registered GVW is less than 4500,and towing a trailer that has less than 2800 KG on the road (not total trailer weight),IS correct.

Regarding annual inspections,they do not have the same exclusion for trailer under 2800 KG.

The correct info regarding annual inspections for the truck and trailer is as follows.This is right of the fax MTO sent me this AM.

For the truck,if the highest of any of the weights listed below exceeds 4500 KG,then you need a sticker for the truck

1. - actual weight empty
2. - actual weight loaded
3. - GVWR as per door sticker
4. - registered gross as per ownership

For the trailer,you have to add the highest weight (above), to the highest weight (below) of the trailer.If this exceeds 4500 KG,you then need stickers for both the truck and trailer.Only exemptions are for house\camper trailers,slide in campers,and motorhomes.

Use the highest of these weights for the trailer in the above calculation.

1. - GVWR as per trailer manufacturer.
2. - actual weight empty
3. - actual weight loaded.

So in your case you can lose the CVOR,by registering your truck for 4499 KG,as long as you can get the trailers weight (measure at the axles) below 2800 KG.Everything I stated in my previous post is still vaild,except the exemption for trailers under 2800 KG does not apply to annual inspection stickers.

Sorry for any confusion.Just wanted to make sure I wasn't misleading anyone.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
OK if I have lets see if I have this right, If I go and lower the GVW to under 4499 kg on the truck ownership and don't put too weight in the trailer(just a few mowers), I can drop the CVOR but will still need my annual inspections stickers.
 

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Yes,that is correct Ray.No CVOR but stickers for both still required.

You will be able to load the truck up to the max GVWR,or 4499 KG which ever is lower.You don't have to worry about the trailer weight at all for the registered gross weight calculation as long as it's under 2800 KG's at the axle(s).
 
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