Why not target certain area's? Get yourself some flyers and go door to door and see what comes of it. Face to face is always a good way to start off. This could also keep all your work close to each other making a more profitable route.
Noob here, Am I way off?
Hey guys, I've had my 2005 F150 for about a year and half now. I'm looking at slapping a plow on it and starting to push some snow this year. My only problem is that I'm a total noob. I know the hardware and how it works, because I've been plowing for my girlfriends dad for a while now(2 years).
The thing is that I moved 2 hours away from that place, so now I'm pretty much a bumm doing nothin'. I'd like to get into the plow business for myself. I don't have kids, I'm 25 and all I'd really like to do is residential and some small businesses. I'm a 100% night owl so the 10pm-8am stuff doesn't bother me. I've looked at just about every plow site online and I guess what I'm asking is...
1. Is my F150 decent enough to do residential and light commercial work?
2. The all mighty question of how much do I really charge?
3. How many places is normal for a days worth of work?
4. Is it normal to be afraid of the costs?
5. Do I have to have a salt spreader?
6...is the business worth it?
I know alot these kinds of questions keep getting asked and I know how to price things out(by push/call/clearing/square footage) I also know that I can charge flat rates per month or season, and I also know that I could charge by the hour. I just don't want to make my prices so high that nobody calls and I don't want to just be blowing smoke up my butt thinking I can do 20 jobs in a day, I don't know what's normal for an avg 8 hour day, blizzards are another story. At the same time I don't want to set my prices so low that I never make any profit. I've got normal bills like lights, rent and food too. I don't even care if I make minimum wage, I just can't be making nothing.
Also can someone ballpark the cost of insurance for a guy my age, just starting out? Or at least tell me what kind of insurance I'd need. I don't mind spending quite a few grand(~$10K, USD) to really crack this whip and get things started, but no more than needed of course. I already have a contract made up but no actual takers as of yet since I'm not sure if I should even bother.
Oh and I'm from Chassell Michigan, basically the most snowy part of Michigan. 49916 if you wanna mapquest it or something.
Thanks for any help
The thing is that I moved 2 hours away from that place, so now I'm pretty much a bumm doing nothin'. I'd like to get into the plow business for myself. I don't have kids, I'm 25 and all I'd really like to do is residential and some small businesses. I'm a 100% night owl so the 10pm-8am stuff doesn't bother me. I've looked at just about every plow site online and I guess what I'm asking is...
1. Is my F150 decent enough to do residential and light commercial work?
2. The all mighty question of how much do I really charge?
3. How many places is normal for a days worth of work?
4. Is it normal to be afraid of the costs?
5. Do I have to have a salt spreader?
6...is the business worth it?
I know alot these kinds of questions keep getting asked and I know how to price things out(by push/call/clearing/square footage) I also know that I can charge flat rates per month or season, and I also know that I could charge by the hour. I just don't want to make my prices so high that nobody calls and I don't want to just be blowing smoke up my butt thinking I can do 20 jobs in a day, I don't know what's normal for an avg 8 hour day, blizzards are another story. At the same time I don't want to set my prices so low that I never make any profit. I've got normal bills like lights, rent and food too. I don't even care if I make minimum wage, I just can't be making nothing.
Also can someone ballpark the cost of insurance for a guy my age, just starting out? Or at least tell me what kind of insurance I'd need. I don't mind spending quite a few grand(~$10K, USD) to really crack this whip and get things started, but no more than needed of course. I already have a contract made up but no actual takers as of yet since I'm not sure if I should even bother.
Oh and I'm from Chassell Michigan, basically the most snowy part of Michigan. 49916 if you wanna mapquest it or something.
Thanks for any help
21 - 38 of 38 Posts
I guess at 3-4 plows an hour but it might be closer to 5 or 6, I just figure it'd take me a little longer than normal judging by how long it takes me to get from A-B driving normally on an average day.
Oh and I'd just pepper my neighborhood with fliers, if someone's available to talk to while I'm working that beat it'd be a plus.
I'll probably get that 2500HD anyway as well, I mean it's a diesel and in great shape with only 25K miles. Even if I don't make it in the bussiness I'd still like the either way. I just don't know how much the guy is asking, KBB is not always what people go by in my neck of the woods.
Driving in snow is my pleasure. I've gone through 5 hours of Blizzard crap doing 60 in my crazy wooded half of Michigan. If you guys have seen "Ice Road Truckers", my area is alot like that.
More about my personal finances incase any one else didn't get enough
I'd "need" roughly $1,100 per month to cover my expenses (lights, food, rent, and phone). If I toss in commercial truck insurance, gas, GL insurance, and a little maintenance cost. I would have a good recipe or more unknown expenses.
Still not quite sure what to consider as resonable profit, as I think that's normally the case for anyone starting out. I'm waiting for a call from my brother to see what's normal around his area which is only an hour away. I figure I could at least get a place to start. I'm guessing $25 a push, but that's just me. Oh and we get about 220inches of snow a year, but as always it's not too predictable.
:notworthy
Thanks again
Oh and I'd just pepper my neighborhood with fliers, if someone's available to talk to while I'm working that beat it'd be a plus.
I'll probably get that 2500HD anyway as well, I mean it's a diesel and in great shape with only 25K miles. Even if I don't make it in the bussiness I'd still like the either way. I just don't know how much the guy is asking, KBB is not always what people go by in my neck of the woods.
Driving in snow is my pleasure. I've gone through 5 hours of Blizzard crap doing 60 in my crazy wooded half of Michigan. If you guys have seen "Ice Road Truckers", my area is alot like that.
More about my personal finances incase any one else didn't get enough
I'd "need" roughly $1,100 per month to cover my expenses (lights, food, rent, and phone). If I toss in commercial truck insurance, gas, GL insurance, and a little maintenance cost. I would have a good recipe or more unknown expenses.Still not quite sure what to consider as resonable profit, as I think that's normally the case for anyone starting out. I'm waiting for a call from my brother to see what's normal around his area which is only an hour away. I figure I could at least get a place to start. I'm guessing $25 a push, but that's just me. Oh and we get about 220inches of snow a year, but as always it's not too predictable.
:notworthy
Thanks again
T8RR8R
Sounds like you are well on your way to figuring it out now that you have the information you need. if you can do 4 an hour safely figure using that number because when snowfalls come at greater depth or you have less room to push you will still be ok because those things will slow you down.
Then when you get 5-6 an hour you can look at that as a bonus and use it to cover the times when you only get 2-3 an hour.
I won't even try to begin to tell you what your profit margin should be I will say that if you shoot for 20% above your final estimated costs that would not be out of line IMO. you can always adjust it on the next pricing go round.
Sounds like you are well on your way to figuring it out now that you have the information you need. if you can do 4 an hour safely figure using that number because when snowfalls come at greater depth or you have less room to push you will still be ok because those things will slow you down.
Then when you get 5-6 an hour you can look at that as a bonus and use it to cover the times when you only get 2-3 an hour.
I won't even try to begin to tell you what your profit margin should be I will say that if you shoot for 20% above your final estimated costs that would not be out of line IMO. you can always adjust it on the next pricing go round.
Welcome aboard from another troll.
Looks like most of the heated side of the discussion has been taken care of, but I think T8RR8R has made some good points about newb's that more experienced plowers don't really take into account, such as when to start, insurance requirements, etc. The experienced among us take it for granted that we need to start early signing accounts, obviously we need insurance, etc. Those were the first thoughts that came into my mind as well, especially in your neck of the woods.
IMO, lose the 150 if you plan on doing any plowing in your area. I know you might not stick with it, but guys, you have to realize, he can see upwards of 200" a year. A 150, part time, even just starting out ain't going to cut it. You will need at minimum a 250\2500 and I would highly recommend a V-plow. Not sure what Chassell is for population, but knowing a little about your area, there isn't much around at all--which is why it is so nice :grinz--so you're probably correct about the 3-4 drives per hour. Definitely don't plan on getting rich the first year, maybe not even the second. I would assume that most people either have plowers lined up or have trucks with plows or tractors for blowing\stacking the snow you guys get. So it will be tough at this late in the stage to get some work, but with some effort you should be able to. Doing some homework is a good idea as well, in addition to determining your own costs, but still being competitive in your area.
Looks like most of the heated side of the discussion has been taken care of, but I think T8RR8R has made some good points about newb's that more experienced plowers don't really take into account, such as when to start, insurance requirements, etc. The experienced among us take it for granted that we need to start early signing accounts, obviously we need insurance, etc. Those were the first thoughts that came into my mind as well, especially in your neck of the woods.
IMO, lose the 150 if you plan on doing any plowing in your area. I know you might not stick with it, but guys, you have to realize, he can see upwards of 200" a year. A 150, part time, even just starting out ain't going to cut it. You will need at minimum a 250\2500 and I would highly recommend a V-plow. Not sure what Chassell is for population, but knowing a little about your area, there isn't much around at all--which is why it is so nice :grinz--so you're probably correct about the 3-4 drives per hour. Definitely don't plan on getting rich the first year, maybe not even the second. I would assume that most people either have plowers lined up or have trucks with plows or tractors for blowing\stacking the snow you guys get. So it will be tough at this late in the stage to get some work, but with some effort you should be able to. Doing some homework is a good idea as well, in addition to determining your own costs, but still being competitive in your area.
He's only 8 miles from Houghton-Hancock which has a decent population for the UP anyway. Not sure what he meant by 2 hours from anywhere unless my google map was wrong.Not sure what Chassell is for population, but knowing a little about your area, there isn't much around at all--which is why it is so nice :grinz--so you're probably correct about the 3-4 drives per hour.
I sure as hell wouldn't want to plow anything in those towns close to the lake. Steeep. Very steep right down to the lake. I don't know how the city does it without sliding into a building.
You're right it's pretty steep in some parts, but not really that much of it, and I don't live 8 miles from it, more like 15. I'm just in the same zipcode as the parts that are 8 miles from it. I was saying that I'm 2 hours from a place that has anything decent because it's pretty much the truth. Marquette Michigan is just around 2 hours away from me and it only has 20K on a good day.
Also between Houghton and Hancock there are only about 12K people total. I wouldn't even touch the Hancock side of things, that part really is where it's steep. I know starting out and being picky aren't 2 things that match each other, but there are some things that I'm just not comfortable with. Such as falling off into the water, sliding through someones house or garage...the list is goes on, but there are some obvious limitations. After a few years of experience I might take some steep places, because I'll be a little better prepared.
Is 50K miles on a '04 GMC 6.6 Diesel a safe bet to start plowing with. I know the miles are pretty normal for a 4 year old truck, but would that be too much for a plow truck?. As far as I know it's never been plowed with. The guy who's selling it said he's actually the 2nd owner, but when he bought it the truck only had 8K miles on it.
Thanks again guys, the more I know the better prepared I am and last week I basically knew nothing. Thank you.
Also between Houghton and Hancock there are only about 12K people total. I wouldn't even touch the Hancock side of things, that part really is where it's steep. I know starting out and being picky aren't 2 things that match each other, but there are some things that I'm just not comfortable with. Such as falling off into the water, sliding through someones house or garage...the list is goes on, but there are some obvious limitations. After a few years of experience I might take some steep places, because I'll be a little better prepared.
Is 50K miles on a '04 GMC 6.6 Diesel a safe bet to start plowing with. I know the miles are pretty normal for a 4 year old truck, but would that be too much for a plow truck?. As far as I know it's never been plowed with. The guy who's selling it said he's actually the 2nd owner, but when he bought it the truck only had 8K miles on it.
Thanks again guys, the more I know the better prepared I am and last week I basically knew nothing. Thank you.
I think the GMC would be fine still has warr left on the engine and would give you the extra pushing power you need up there.
On your location have been threw threw and your right theres just not much period that way with the two colleges probley being the bigger buss for the area.
I haul Repos from Newberry to Auburn hills the Newberry repos were taken from agents in the UP and brought to the lot there. I have gotton to know the one agent from Houghton pretty good and he Echos what your saying.
Anyway glad were all on track and again welcome, you will do just fine.
On your location have been threw threw and your right theres just not much period that way with the two colleges probley being the bigger buss for the area.
I haul Repos from Newberry to Auburn hills the Newberry repos were taken from agents in the UP and brought to the lot there. I have gotton to know the one agent from Houghton pretty good and he Echos what your saying.
Anyway glad were all on track and again welcome, you will do just fine.
I might actually end up doing all of this next year. I'd like to get a headstart like the rest of the people and start making contact with the people before hand that would like my services. I could also learn alot here and be even better prepared. I have the passion to plow and the mental/phyical endurance to go for long stretches, but all the worries of making a business out of it are there. I guess that's normal for any kind of business though. I see why you guys say find a subcontractor. We will see how things go.
Thanks for the help guys.
Thanks for the help guys.
Like i said in my first repley short of meeting you in person you have all the quailtys it takes for this buss and i would hire you barring a in person issue.
Dont be worried about the buss end everyone here would be lying if they said they dont go threw it even years of being in buss. Its natural to worry and a good owner usally does the ones that dont probely have gotton to comfortable in buss , and it can change in a split second, regardless of years in buss.
Again i think you have had time to decompress so to speak and i think your thought process is dead on .
Dont be worried about the buss end everyone here would be lying if they said they dont go threw it even years of being in buss. Its natural to worry and a good owner usally does the ones that dont probely have gotton to comfortable in buss , and it can change in a split second, regardless of years in buss.
Again i think you have had time to decompress so to speak and i think your thought process is dead on .
Good thought process, how is the competition in that area ? Seems everyone has a plow up that way. It might be something to look at and run some numbers before you take the big plunge. If there are limited accounts to be had, you may have a hell of a time landing the contracts and then making a profit. If your competition has no insurance or decent equipment it makes it tuff to bid against. Most customers wont pay 50% plus increases to go with the legitimate contractor.I might actually end up doing all of this next year. I'd like to get a headstart like the rest of the people and start making contact with the people before hand that would like my services. I could also learn alot here and be even better prepared. I have the passion to plow and the mental/phyical endurance to go for long stretches, but all the worries of making a business out of it are there. I guess that's normal for any kind of business though. I see why you guys say find a subcontractor. We will see how things go.
Thanks for the help guys.
Erie Pa market was trashed several years ago by low balling Management Companys. They still have not recovered.
You know its kinda like the guy who opens the Fish Market up there, pretty hard to stay afloat when everyone fishes.
As far as I know of there are really only 2 other people doing any kind of plowing as a business. 1 of them is a huge construction company(Moyle) and then there's a dude(person of uknown gender?) that's doing it on his own just like many of you guys. I'm pretty certain that alot of people that have a plow just do it for themselves. I don't think I've even seen anyone plow on my street except the county municipal services, and I think they were lost.
Sure is strange how a company that hasn't been around in several years can still have that much of an affect on pricing.Erie Pa market was trashed several years ago by low balling Management Companys. They still have not recovered.
:winkT8RR8R, is this going to be your only source of income, full time or will you be working and getting ready for snow.
I'd like to do this as a full time thing for winter. However until the snow starts to fall I think I'll keep on working. I'm kind of also looking at having 2 or 3 businesses wrapped into 1, so it's not just T8RR8R's plowing. The only things I'm good at are PC tutoring and cooking. I sure don't want to start a resaurant to be a cook, and I don't really know if I'd want to be a PC geek for a living. I have thought about being a landlord, but that has it's oddities too. One of my issues is that I'd hate to have a job and not be able to leave to go plow when I'd need to. I don't know too many bosses that would be ok with someone not showing up for work cuz they're out "dinking around with some snow", or just up and leaving half way through the day.
What do you guys suggest I do while it's not snowing? I'm guessing I couldn't do this for a full time thing the first few years. What do you guys do? I'm looking for something to do to suppliment my income.
What do you guys suggest I do while it's not snowing? I'm guessing I couldn't do this for a full time thing the first few years. What do you guys do? I'm looking for something to do to suppliment my income.
F150 is not suitable for commercial lots. Any heavy snow and you will be hard pressed to get it done.Hey guys, I've had my 2005 F150 for about a year and half now. I'm looking at slapping a plow on it and starting to push some snow this year. My only problem is that I'm a total noob. I know the hardware and how it works, because I've been plowing for my girlfriends dad for a while now(2 years).
The thing is that I moved 2 hours away from that place, so now I'm pretty much a bumm doing nothin'. I'd like to get into the plow business for myself. I don't have kids, I'm 25 and all I'd really like to do is residential and some small businesses. I'm a 100% night owl so the 10pm-8am stuff doesn't bother me. I've looked at just about every plow site online and I guess what I'm asking is...
1. Is my F150 decent enough to do residential and light commercial work?
2. The all mighty question of how much do I really charge?
3. How many places is normal for a days worth of work?
4. Is it normal to be afraid of the costs?
5. Do I have to have a salt spreader?
6...is the business worth it?
I know alot these kinds of questions keep getting asked and I know how to price things out(by push/call/clearing/square footage) I also know that I can charge flat rates per month or season, and I also know that I could charge by the hour. I just don't want to make my prices so high that nobody calls and I don't want to just be blowing smoke up my butt thinking I can do 20 jobs in a day, I don't know what's normal for an avg 8 hour day, blizzards are another story. At the same time I don't want to set my prices so low that I never make any profit. I've got normal bills like lights, rent and food too. I don't even care if I make minimum wage, I just can't be making nothing.
Also can someone ballpark the cost of insurance for a guy my age, just starting out? Or at least tell me what kind of insurance I'd need. I don't mind spending quite a few grand(~$10K, USD) to really crack this whip and get things started, but no more than needed of course. I already have a contract made up but no actual takers as of yet since I'm not sure if I should even bother.
Oh and I'm from Chassell Michigan, basically the most snowy part of Michigan. 49916 if you wanna mapquest it or something.
Thanks for any help
Charging is based on many factors including what is the competition charging. On the low side a small driveway would be $40 going up from there.
The time it takes is based on your skills. I can do a small residential driveway is less than 5 mins. But the driving time between the locations is going to take the most time. If you need to shovel and use a snow blower then that will take more time depending on how large.
As far as a salt spreader, if you are doing houses, you can get away without it but it really does help speed things up considerably. It is a needed for a commercial account. There are the small sanders that go on the hitch and the ones that go in the bed. The hitch mounted sanders allow you to also carry a snow blower where as the bed mounted one does not allow that so you will need a second truck if you are transporting a snow blower. You can be very lucrative is you bill right and have the right equipment but it is very labor intensive. And prior to a storm you may have to spend a hour or two preparing, loading/buying salt, checking the equipment. Then the same time after the storm. And your customers need to know that they do not all get done first, there is a lag from the time you start the first job until the last one is complete, so that needs to be taken into consideration. When it snows overnight , it is better but when it is during the day, the logistics gets challenging.
I did it for decades and made a lot of money but there were many long days. I am now retired but I still have a couple of trucks with plows to do my own driveway.
That fella hasn't been on in almost 16 years.F150 is not suitable for commercial lots. Any heavy snow and you will be hard pressed to get it done.
Charging is based on many factors including what is the competition charging. On the low side a small driveway would be $40 going up from there.
The time it takes is based on your skills. I can do a small residential driveway is less than 5 mins. But the driving time between the locations is going to take the most time. If you need to shovel and use a snow blower then that will take more time depending on how large.
As far as a salt spreader, if you are doing houses, you can get away without it but it really does help speed things up considerably. It is a needed for a commercial account. There are the small sanders that go on the hitch and the ones that go in the bed. The hitch mounted sanders allow you to also carry a snow blower where as the bed mounted one does not allow that so you will need a second truck if you are transporting a snow blower. You can be very lucrative is you bill right and have the right equipment but it is very labor intensive. And prior to a storm you may have to spend a hour or two preparing, loading/buying salt, checking the equipment. Then the same time after the storm. And your customers need to know that they do not all get done first, there is a lag from the time you start the first job until the last one is complete, so that needs to be taken into consideration. When it snows overnight , it is better but when it is during the day, the logistics gets challenging.
I did it for decades and made a lot of money but there were many long days. I am now retired but I still have a couple of trucks with plows to do my own driveway.
LOL. That is funny. I missed that. Replied to an ancient post. I must be getting old. heheThat fella hasn't been on in almost 16 years.
Glad somebody is keeping attendance.That fella hasn't been on in almost 16 years.
21 - 38 of 38 Posts
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