Noob here, Am I way off?

First Welcome to LTS

Next welcome Yooper from the Lower Yooper . Serious you have a tall list to fill there of questions. To save you alot of time and greif you can do a serach here and find a answer to just about all your questions.

However Chuck Smith has a Book he wrote and published that i would highly recommend you have him FEDERAL express it right away has your location is kinda getting past bidding season for this year and Slapping plows on.

Just a quick few answers the F150 would be ok for resi work and some light commerical in most situations however your area is the exception to the rule been up your way and the snow you get is gonna tax a F150 on anything other than small runs.

Another suggestion have you looked at plowing for someone in your new area there i mean short of meeting you in person you seem to have the right additude to plow for me maybe doing that would give you a idea of your new area and a chance to prepare for next season , iam not saying its not doable now but you are really pushing close to the edge Oct 12th for the UP is like nov !2th for us Lower Yoopers.

Anyway just a thought and again welcome. See Chucks chevy pages link for the Snow plow handbook best read you could buy for the questions you have.

PS If you pull up a chair and stick around ill shoot you a copy of my new book understanding my typing 101. Wink

Welcome to LTS.

Like Fred stated, if you are serious about plowing, better get ready soon. Your territory gets a head start. Our deercamp is in Kenton which is not far from you and we've seen big snow in Oct.

You seem a little hesitant about plowing so if I were you I'd hang a plow on the f-150 instead of spending $$ on a bigger truck. Try it this season and if you can make something of it then step up to a larger truck and plow for next year.

No clue on what to charge for your location. Ask other people who hire snow contractors and see what the going rate is.

As long as you have a tight route you can do 30 to 60 drives. Only a ballpark guess though. Depends on if there are subdivisions to cut down on driving time. In large cities many more can be done. Depends on your area.

Afraid of the cost$? If you have 300 large in the bank I don't think buying a plow, fuel and insurance will send you to the poorhouse.

Is it worth it? Good question. Keep reading posts on this site and you'll find your answer.

And a troll is some who lives in the Lower Peninsula of MI (under the bridge-Mackinac that is). I would be one as well.

In other words I need to do a little local research. That's seems pretty doable.

I'm not overly concerned about the F150 thing, it was pretty much free to since it was my dads so if it sucks donkey dong I don't really care, I'll just push it till it quits. There is a plow available for it already(Blizzard 760SW), but I don't know if it's mine to use or my brothers(PIA) since it's in my parents garage.

My biggest concern is being able to pickup 30-60 jobs, much less being able to actually do them in a reasonable amount of time. I am one of those people that can work 48 hours straight if that's what needs to be done to make a customer happy, but like I said I dunno if I could even get enough customers to not go in the hole. Plus the past few winters have been pretty blah for snow.

I'm not saying that I'm not dedicated or enthusiastic, but I am very cautious about getting into something way over my head.

Do you guys think 150/mo for a flat rate is way high or way low, that'd only be $5 a day, but I'd need about 12 or more drives to cover all my expenses.

Welcome to LTS
As everyone stated here so far get freindly with the search area on this site. It will answer most if not all your questions. If not, come back and ask and I am sure you will have more help than you expect. Most of us here are busy professionals and have enough of our own business to do and will help with answers as needed and point out to others where to look when we know the answers are already out there. Use the Search Feature.

As far as the work goes if you are not commited to this idea of plowing by now I cannot say that I feel this is something to do. This time of year in your location you should be getting ready to plow, not deciding if you should plow.

If I were in your shoes and was contemplating doing so I would hang a plow, get the insurance and start talking to people. You probably could sub to another contractor in your area this year to feel your way into it. If you decide to persue it venture out and talk to prospective clients even if it is for next year.

If you think you are going to make a killing the first year you are in the wrong business line. We have to deal with unpredictable weather, the economy and way too many other things that influence the final net for the season. If you think you are going to find anyone here that will tell you that you can do this with no risk, I do not think that person exists here.

When it comes to DL insurance I do not care how many wavers you have signed. Have the insurance because some day a lawyer is going to show you that your waiver is useless. Your 300K will be gone in a blink of an eye.

Like Fred said in the begining. If you are serious about this, call and get a plow installed and then pull up your chair and start searching.

I'd suggest you go back through my posts. I'm not looking to make a killing. Just looking to break even and start to establish a few clients. This is the time of the year to be getting ready to plow not to be deciding whether to plow or not is correct which is part of getting ready. Also when it's your first time doing things on your own it's not really possible to know when to start to look for this kind of information so if I'm late for the race I can always do something else till next year when I'll know when to look for contracts. As I also said before, I'm not looking to make an entire corporation out of this, just something to keep me going through to springtime. As far as insurance goes, I asked because I didn't know, no to get my arse chewed out like I was a cocky kid tossing his money around. The only reason I mentioned my financial situation is to point to why I'd like to start a business, and I found plowing to be an attractive financial investment. It's something I like to do for people, but I'm here trying to find out how to make a real go of it. I know that there are business persons in this forum that take their time to respond to questions that could have been easily search for. I also know how to use the search just fine and dandy, which usually leads me to a point where people say "I dunno what price to recommend". Which is fine by me, because they also say go out and make some calls, find stuff out and that's what I'm going to be doing. One reason you guys never give pricing information is because each situation is different, therefore that's why people ask so many questions, because each situation is different as well. Sorry for taking up your time CGSI, but if you are so concerned about nOObs taking up your time, then don't reply. No disrespect intended or implied.

Definately get GL insurance as you can not sign away liability; even with a waiver. But, you will also likely need Commercial Vehicle insurance as your insurance company may require it to get GL. If you accept money for services, you will need Commercial Vehicle insurance, so they kind of have you over the proverbial barrel. GL insurance varied by state and personal circumstances, but expect at least $1,000 for someone your age with no demonstratable experience in the field. If you already have a plow, that will save a lot of money, but expect to pay about $500 for installation if needed. You have a lot of the startup expenses covered, so your "breakeven" point is a lot lower than some, but you still might not show any profit the first year. Expect some repairs and maybe a tow or two (even with 4wd). Anyway, given that you already have a lot of the cost covered, go for it. Take out an ad in the local shopper, put up a flyer at the local convenience store and tell everyone you know that you're looking for plowing jobs. As for what to charge, I wouldn't worry about being too high or low the first winter. Too high and they'll let you know. Too low and you'll figure it out quick enough. Nobody keeps their first customers past the first year or two, anyway. My advise would be to set a minimum that will cover the "average" driveway in your area and charge regardless of how small the area is. Then charge $5 or so above that for a bigger area. As you go along, you'll get the hang of it. Just make sure in the beginning you charge enough to cover your gas times three (gas, other expenses and your salary).

Check your local laws for any permits needed for plowing (each town you plow in and the State).

One caution, be sure to declare your income from plowing on your taxes.

nice noob,
Do a search you will find all the answers you need.
get someopcorn2 read then ask away.
we know you know it all becuse you plowed for your girlfriends dad, so what gives?
"I know the hardware and how it works, because I've been plowing for my girlfriends dad for a while now(2 years)."
Do whatever you want but don't bitch at the guys that are already doing what you want to do.

The 1/2 ton truck , SELL
Get a 3/4 ton and at least a 8ft plow to start with.

Next start a business like, "jack o!!'s plowing".
Next get it regestered by your state, exampel an LLC.
To shelter your $300K from letigous pepple.

Then get comershail vehicel INS.
DO NOT PLOW WITH OUT IT.


Your rates, you seen smart... what are your costs.
figure it out, only you know these numbers.
we can not tell you how much you need to make to live.

But what do I know? It seams like you are grouling at the hands that want to help you. ya youpper.....


wow This is a big post for me I guess he hit a soft spot, lol

T8RR8R said:

I'd suggest you go back through my posts. I'm not looking to make a killing. Just looking to break even and start to establish a few clients. This is the time of the year to be getting ready to plow not to be deciding whether to plow or not is correct which is part of getting ready. Also when it's your first time doing things on your own it's not really possible to know when to start to look for this kind of information so if I'm late for the race I can always do something else till next year when I'll know when to look for contracts. As I also said before, I'm not looking to make an entire corporation out of this, just something to keep me going through to springtime. As far as insurance goes, I asked because I didn't know, no to get my arse chewed out like I was a cocky kid tossing his money around. The only reason I mentioned my financial situation is to point to why I'd like to start a business, and I found plowing to be an attractive financial investment. It's something I like to do for people, but I'm here trying to find out how to make a real go of it. I know that there are business persons in this forum that take their time to respond to questions that could have been easily search for. I also know how to use the search just fine and dandy, which usually leads me to a point where people say "I dunno what price to recommend". Which is fine by me, because they also say go out and make some calls, find stuff out and that's what I'm going to be doing. One reason you guys never give pricing information is because each situation is different, therefore that's why people ask so many questions, because each situation is different as well. Sorry for taking up your time CGSI, but if you are so concerned about nOObs taking up your time, then don't reply. No disrespect intended or implied.

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T8RR8R
Just so this does not get going any further in the wrong direction. I am not saying you are taking up my time. I was saying before you ask people to give up there time to reply to your questions you would be better off searching through the forum using the search option because your questions are already answered or at least the vast majority of them.

Pricing.,,,,,,,,, Pricing is an individual issue. I run a fleet of specialized equipment that cost me more to operate and maintain than it does a guy with a 1/2 ton truck and a 7 foot plow. What you would be able to do a driveway for and what I would be able to do it for are 2 different things. I know what I need to make and you should know what you need to make. Unfortunatley you do not know the cost of doing business for yourself yet so I (nor any of the other guys here) can be very much help in guiding you without the information. Come back after you know these answers and ask "how long do you think this might take me to do" and you will probably get more reply than you know what to do with. Because once you know your costs and someone helps you with the time part you will know what you need to charge.

"An Investment" Snow and Ice Management is much more than an investment. While true it is a large investment in equipment and insurance and such it is more of a life style you need to be willing to live. You say you are a night owl which is good sometimes but as you grow your business you will find that rather than being a night owl or a day bird what you really need is stamina. You need to be able to Service your accounts faithfully regardless of when the event comes through. People are counting on you. Many of us are in bed by 7pm preceeding an event because we know at midnight it is going to be balls to the wall for the next upteen hours.

I did not say it was too late to start this kind of work this year. What I said was get your plow and insurance and get your butt out there and get looking around. Nobody is going to offer you work if you are thinking about doing plowing but if you show up with a vehicle that is equipped to go plow they will be more willing to talk to you and give you work. They will take you more seriously!

As far as your money. I do not care (nor do 90% of the guys here) if you have 3.00 in the bank or 300K. Your money is your business, not mine. We treat everyone here the same whether you are running a fleet of 1 or 30 trucks.

"Getting your Arse Chewed Off" Get a tougher skin if you are going to hang around here. If you thought that was an A$$ chewing you need to read more of the forums. You took friendly advice as a butt chewing. WRONG.

Now, if after you do just a bit of homework on your own and you have a question, please feel free to ask. You can even PM me directly or email me using the link on my website. Either way, its up to you. You can either use this resource pool here to help you make a sucess of your business or alienate yourself by getting cocky with those that can help you. Life is all about choices, the ball is now in your court.

Honestly After reading some of your repleys back to some very good guys here , iam not sure if its just the tone or what but asking someone a question and already knowing the answer seems like a pretty moot point.

Has for the 300k it can be gone tomarrow. Having spent 3/4 's of my life investing and growing green and i dont mean grass or weed the snow buss is not ness a money maker, most here have done ok and its because of there management abilty and there willingness to ask a question froma wealth of info here and apply it.

For me yup the snow buss made me money however i did it more because of my love for the work and buss if i was doing it to try and get in the Fortune 500 would be no chance in hell.


Mick gave you the best advice so far and now i will seek a new investment money manager.

This place LTS is much like Cheers everyone knows your name and many here would give the shirt off there back to help another member i dont care how long iam here or how long i have plowed snow i learn something here everyday.

Again maybe its just the tone in which i hear but something about the members here is much like my love for raising Blue Tick hounds they can be your best friend and the most loyal friend ever smack them on the snout 1 too many times and watch them go away.:wink

Sorry guys. First of all I didn't mean to sound rude or cocky and I apologize for coming across that way.

Hope this answers more of your questions to help me answer some of mine.

My question about insurance or a waiver was a real question. I didn't know the answer to it. Basically I just wanted to know if it's a requirement to have the liability insurance. I already knew that I'd have to have commercial vehicle insurance for my truck instead of just "joe blow" vehicle insurance.

I've also stated that if I needed to get a bigger truck I'd be fine with that since I could use it for other things as well. 2004 Chev, 2500HD Diesel for sale just around the corner, I know the seller and he's never plowed with it since it was brand new.

I don't expect to make any "real" profit, but I'd need to at least pay my rent, feed myself, keep the lights on and such. I also don't expect a fortune 500 company either.

I don't ask my GF's dad for advice because he's dead.

I don't really have much of a chance to work for a subcontractor since I live in BFE. Literally 2 hours from the nearest contracting anything and I believe that they are a flooring company not a place that would have much of a desire to have a plow. In fact I think they have all vans and use a snow blower.

Once again the only reason I mentioned my 300K is, because it's what I'd use to start my business with, as I know it's not cheap to start any business and you basically need to cover youself for the first 5 years as though you'd make no profit.

I also have that 300K invested for growth NOT for income. Also my quoted 5% income is after the taxes, feduciary fees and the income that I do take from it.

I also know that I can do roughly 3-4 jobs an hour since alot of homes up here aren't that close together and the driveways aren't that short either. So there's a little more time wrapped up into each job, but houses aren't like a normal town that are 20 or so feet apart either.

Since I'm starting "late" this year and don't know how much business is available I'd like to start sticking simple flyers in peoples doors, and hanging flyers in our grocery stores and gas stations too.

Oh and by night owl I mean that I don't mind getting up in the dark and getting home in the dark. I'm used to being awake about 20 hours a day even if my day starts at midnight.

I gotta go eat dinner, so I gotta go. I will be back later to check in on things and touch base with the stuff I've missed and hopefully patch things up...again I apologize for sounding like a **** and total nOOb.(aka BOOB) Have a slice of digital cake :b-day

T8RR8R

Again, Welcome to LTS

To Try and answer your questions I will answer them in the order you wrote them.

GL insurance is pretty much a must for you to do business. It is a must if you are going to be out there working. A waiver is not a fix all and its value is very limited. I would not recommend doing work without the insurance in place.

Truck. Several people have mentioned that the 150 trucks are a bit light and recommend using a 3/4 ton or 1 ton. You can push a larger plow and become more efficient.

Income. Varies by the winter. Figure out what you need to make for "rent, utilities, food, insurance, truck and plow, fuel plus a reasonable profit". You stated you can only do 3 or 4 driveways and hour, so if you can figure out an average for plowable events for your area per month then you can figure out how many driveways you need to do at a given rate which you now can figure out and will meet your financial requirements.


Advertising. The fliers are a good idea and if you are going to do them get them out there now. put a sign on your plow truck that simply says snow plowing and your phone number. A magnetic sign is fine. Also, drive around during a snow event, you might be surprised how many flag downs you get.

I would suggest that if this is something you are serious about either fit your truck with a plow OR get the other truck and get it fitted with a plow and get advertising at the same time. Did I mention you should get your plowing insurance too??????:wink Without it you could lose everything you have including your new truck and bank account.
After all you are going to be traveling when the conditions are at there worse and an accident is most likely to happen Maybe even become an LLC to protect your personal assets from business liabilities

Whatever you decide to do I wish you the best of luck.