[JustUsDe]

I ussually charge by the ton for salting. I just got a new contract for a subdivision and they want to know how much per application instead of per ton. There is 2 miles of roadway. 26 foot wide. I will be using a Fisher 1000 to spread with. How much salt will I need for one average application. Any help would be nice.



Ray

 

[cat320]

Ray I have never down a road but it will be an easy spread probaly have to do runs down one side and up the other to get coverage.Just taking a guess you may use 2-4 ton depending on how heavy you apply it.So I would charge on how long it will take you plus material cost.

 

[Alan]

You don't see really cold air or surface temperatures down where you are. I'd bet on about 600 lbs per lane mile. You've got four lane miles there so I'm thinking along the lines of 2500 lbs per application. Best way would probably be to lay it right on the centerline if possible. That's not really practical with a vee box though.

I'd bid it figuring 1.25 ton per application and try to keep the material in a relatively narrow band as close to road center as you can. That way you concentrate the salt and can get a clean stripe in the middle quite rapidly. Traffic will work the brine out to the edges.

That's the strategy VT AOT uses and it works well up here.

 

[JustUsDe]

Cat,
Thanks for your response.

Alan,
I was thinking along the lines of how you are. There is no center line as far as being striped out. The road is 26 feet. Cars are allowed to park on both sides of the roads. So My thinking was to plow the subdivision then have the truck with the spreader ride through once thowing salt as he drove down the center. Realalistically we only need to cover one to two lanes. Depending on the amount of vehicles parked on the road. Thanks for your response also It helped me out alot.

Ray

 

[GeoffD]

600 lbs to 1000 lbs per lane mile:

Depends on the amount of ice or snow you are trying to melt.
Your AT ( Air Temp) your GT (Ground Temp)
Time of Day closer to the 600 at 8 am then 6 am because of radait cooling.
Magic window of 10 to 2 the highest point of sun during the day ( less salt will be required then)
The condition of the pavement.
The amount of traffic

Spreading a narror band of salt down the center will work well assuming you have a good amount of traffic flow down the road. Remember you will have to return to slush of the slush that has accumulated and possibly retreat. If the traffic volume isn't high enough you may need to run your spinner at a higher speed and put a wide band out at a heavy amount. I would plan on the possiblity of retreating and bid at 1.5 ton. This allows you to retreat with out taking a loss, or running up the bill.

Geoff

 

[4evergreenlawns]

I have had several clients ask for a per application rate instead of per ton. I started this last season too and it worker out alot better as far as billing without any arrguments about how much did you put donw. Kind of like biding per push. With the lighter snowfalls you make some money. In the heavier ones you get even money and even charge the up rate fro moer snow. I think we can thank some of the guys who are over billing for salt with sometype of no real explanation as to how much salt they put down. Lets face it they just see the salt truck one time maybe during the storm. You have two snow falls one time you bill for 1ton, second time you bill for 2.5 tons. They do not really see the difference.

I try to bid for between a moderate to heavy application will take for the entire job and figure in the average salt application over the past two years. Than went I salt light, med. or heavy, I still leave myself room in the numbers. The nice thing is all the applications are billed as the same rate. That way, every time they see the salt truck they know, and I know how much the bill is.

In your case, I would agree with what has already been said, go about 1.5tons, spread down the middle alittle wide adjust your speed over ground keeping the labor down but getting the right amount of product down and under those parked cars as they move.

 

[JCurtis]

Alan's guesstimate seems about right. But you can go to

http://www.saltinstitute.org/

They may have some information on applications rates per lane mile.

 

[GeoffD]

I have a very detailed chart on salt application rates, this is a quick break down.

Above 32 Temps plan on rising no app
Temps will fall 100 to 200 lbs per lane mile

25 to 32 Rising Temps 200 to 300 lbs per lane mile
Falling Temps 200 to 400 lbs per lane mile

20 to 25 Rising Temps 300 to 500 lbs per lane mile
Falling Temps 400 to 600 lbs per lane mile

15 to 20 Rising Temps 500 to 700 lbs per lane mile
Falling Temps 700 to 800 lbs per lane mile

15 or below sand and plow as needed, monitor road temp till above 15 then salt.

The above rates are all based on road temperature. These rates are also based around a road in good condition. Roads with poor pavement, applications will be higher. Shaded areas will require higher applications as well. These applications can also change depending on the type and amount of snow or ice falling. The above rates are also based on useing salt priority.


Geoff

 

[GeoffD]

I also have detailed numbers for calcium applications. However the key to using those numbers is to have your spreader correctly calibrated.

Geoff

 

[Lawngodfather]

That about 6 acres.

3½ tons of salt per an app.

 

[Alan]

That about 6 acres.

3½ tons of salt per an app.

Are you getting paid by the ton? I know we deal with lower temperatures than you do and there's no way I could justify applying that much material.

I know that with air temps at 20-25° amd pavement temperatures a little lower than that I can anti-ice with 600 lbs per acre. If I put 600 down at the beginning of a storm, 6-8" and I plow it twice I can do a touch up with about 300 lbs afterwards and be back to black pavement.

That chart Geoff posted is a lot more realistic as far as getting the job done. He's probably in a slightly warmer area than I am but still colder than Delaware or northern Missouri.

The environmental effects of that kind of application done many times over a winter have to be severe. I know you're in an area where snow is a panic event, but that's still an awful lot of salt.

 

[Lawngodfather]

How wide is a lane mile?

8' 10' 12' 16'???

By my calculatings 1 lane mile is much more than an acre.

And 1000# of salt per an acre is a realistic number, I just can't see those light dustings you all post you do.

Yes I get paid by the ton, in a set price per an app.

200# per 1.5 acres is like 3# of salt per 1000... chicken feed.

 

[Alan]

A standard lane is considered to be 12' wide, so lane mile is a bit over 60,000 sf.

All I know is that from my experience here in Vermont, where it is usually in the low 20s or above when we get snow, I can keep pavement free of pack with 600 lbs per acre.

One application at the onset of precipitation, followed by a plowing as snow accumulates will deal with up to a 4" storm. Repeat plowings and a light application after the last plowing will return a lot to bare and black within a few hours unless the temperature drops a bunch.

If that happens a full application after the final plowing is adequate.

Rarely do I need to apply more than twice for any snowfall. And I'm getting my lots back to bare and black (usually) sooner than anyone else around here. There's one guy who beats me to bare pavement about half the time, but never by much.

Have you ever tried to see just how little you needed to do the job? I'm not trying to be smart here, but snow is snow and salt is salt. We both seem to get the results we need but I'm doing it on way less material. So is Geoff, and he's in a municipal setting. Something is different in how we're going about this.

 

[GeoffD]

You need to realize that salting roads requires much less salt than lots. Those numbers are 100 % ligit for road work, there has been thosands maybe even million of dollars spent to fine tune those numbers. Just so you know i got those numbers from Maine DOT. You need to realize that when salting roads requires less salt because of the higher amount of traffic causing a brine to develope faster.

The temperatures I posted are also based 100% around pavement remperature.


Also a lane mile is based on a 14' lane, so in better terms is a road mile of 28'. For treating a 28' road our salt trucks run with the spinner on zero, and augur on whatever is calibrated at for the desired rate. Much less salt is required because it is not spread in a wide pattern. If the spinner was run at even a low speed the numbers would jump, and much more salt would be required. However a typical salt application will be enough to get a good brine going across 90 to 95% of the road. After the brine developes the road is replowed, and spot applications may be used. There is also a magic window with sunlight up my way we call it 10 to 2, the you want to slush the roads before 2 pm, this is when the sun starts to set and the roads would refreeze. In terms of road work a snowplow is the overall cheapest method of attack. If you would like to melt all the snow or ice on the road with out plowing, a much higher application of salt would be required. However for the most part traffic moves on the roads, so there is no reason why they just can be slushed off.

Geoff

 

[Lawngodfather]

There our difference, I do mostly private roads, lots that get salted, need to have them open and claer in the fastest amount of time possable. Some are low traffic and the owners can't wait for the traffic to move the salt around when that time hits, cause that means liability.

Don't get me wrong, I have a set price, I try to use the least amount of salt possable, but got to bid it to melt under 2" of snow, so that when that time does come, and it does, I will make money.

 

[Lawngodfather]

I still believe 1000# of salt per an acre is a good number for fast results in melting snow.

Now we are in 2 different worlds here.

4" of snow St. Louis is shut down, even at 2" of snow the idiots are everywhere.

I am doing my job.