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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Anyone ever experience this? Hard as a Cinder block, 50 lb bags of Halite.....TOTALLY USELESS! :mad:

They've been sitting on a pallet in my truck bed since the 10th of December. I had them tarped so they stayed dry, and with them stacked on a pallet, they wouldn't be sitting in any standing water in the bed if it rained.....and it DID! That and the high 60 degree temps followed by our single digit temps as of the last few days.

We're not talking about a couple bags here, but ALL 35 or so of them!

Droping the bags on the ground does no good. The bags end up ripping.


This is the first and LAST time I'm ever storing my salt outside. I usually store it on half pallets along the wall in my garage.

The 25 that I had to buy today in an emergency were stored outside, and were totally fine!???


Any thoughts???

How to dispose? Ask for money back? Refund with free flowing ones?


This load WAS fine and free flowing on the Dec 9th storm.


UGGH!
 

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Tommy I have had this happen more times than I want to think about. I think alot has to do with how wet the salt is when they fill the bags. You have had very cold temps and I have had some freeze up lately as well. I put them in my garage for a day or two and they thawed. Even if the batch was fine in early December, it probably was not as cold as it is now. They should thaw out.
 

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I agree, they are just frozen. Bring them inside to thaw, the living room would be nice and warm!:shades
 

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You would think for the extra money bagged salt cost, they could at least use dry salt. Last year when salt was running low, every bag I had was frozen. I had to use a kerosene heater in my storage container. It was nice and toasty in there.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I hear ya's with the "Dry Salt" issues!!!

A pallet I had last year was like mortar mix, nothing bigger than 1/8" and WET. Wouldn't go through the spreader, it would just cake up and not flow down.

I'll have to wait until it gets above 17 degrees and try this frozen stuff.

I dropped a bag just a while ago from the truck down to the ground. Bag split open and there were 4 LARGE chunks, solid as a cinder block.

I ended up running those over with my truck tires, and shoveling the piles then.

I'm hoping it'll thaw out and dry up and become useable. THis stuff aint cheap anymore. These day's I'm only making $0.162 per pound on it.



Thanks for the help, I'll update when things warm up a bit.
 

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TLS said:
Anyone ever experience this? Hard as a Cinder block, 50 lb bags of Halite.....TOTALLY USELESS! :mad:

They've been sitting on a pallet in my truck bed since the 10th of December. I had them tarped so they stayed dry, and with them stacked on a pallet, they wouldn't be sitting in any standing water in the bed if it rained.....and it DID! That and the high 60 degree temps followed by our single digit temps as of the last few days.

We're not talking about a couple bags here, but ALL 35 or so of them!

Droping the bags on the ground does no good. The bags end up ripping.


This is the first and LAST time I'm ever storing my salt outside. I usually store it on half pallets along the wall in my garage.

The 25 that I had to buy today in an emergency were stored outside, and were totally fine!???


Any thoughts???

How to dispose? Ask for money back? Refund with free flowing ones?


This load WAS fine and free flowing on the Dec 9th storm.


UGGH!
CAn you make that magic salt slurry from it?or a pre wetter? if it doesnt thaw out.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Re: Re: Frozen Salt Bags???

ih82plow said:
CAn you make that magic salt slurry from it?or a pre wetter? if it doesnt thaw out.
Whats that? I'm not real well versed on the liquid apps.


Why was this moved? If I wanted very little exposure, I would have initially posted this in the "DE-ICING" section. I posted it in the "NORMAL" section for a reason.....So it would get read.


Oh well.


No biggie I guess.
 

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If you leave bags outside condinsation will build up in bag when left in the sun and then it freezes.
 

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Salt is hydroscopic,meaning it absorbs water.So your salt could be 100% dry,but will still absorb water while tarped or covered,which may freeze when it gets really cold.

I have had it happen a few times,as we keep the sidewalk salt on pallets in an old van.While it is fully sealed off from the elements,it still does freeze up sometimes.

I will sell off the frozen stuff cheap to someone who needs it,and buy new stuff.I find the salt is never quite as effective after is gotten wet,and been frozen.
 

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Re: Re: Re: Frozen Salt Bags???

TLS said:
Why was this moved? If I wanted very little exposure, I would have initially posted this in the "DE-ICING" section. I posted it in the "NORMAL" section for a reason.....So it would get read.

Oh well.

No biggie I guess.
While I didn't do the move,it should be posted in the proper forum.It is obviously getting pretty good exposure.Most people read the new threads by clicking the "get new posts" link,so it would be viewed by most no matter where it was posted.

What would be the sense of having proper forums if no one posts in the correct one ?
 

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I store my bag salt out side and not covered. I've had only one bag that was hard. I've gone through six pallets so far. I need to find a place to get bulk salt. I can make more money that way. :cash

Everett
 

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I moved the thread to the proper forum. I'm sorry if you feel that was out of line and in hindsight I should have sent a note explaining my action.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Alan,

Not a real problem.

I was not aware of the show new threads or whatever it is.

I check the main fourm, and on days the main fourm is slow, or I have spare time, I'll check the Meyer and Boss fourms, but hardly ever check this De-Icing. While I may be wrong, I feel I'm not alone in this practice. Just too many fourms to visit, and such little time.

My intent was to gather as much exposure by placing it on the "MAIN" fourm page, and while you did move it, it still kinda hangs in there with the (relocated) after it.


Thanks everyone, looks like tomorrow might tip over above freezing, I'll have to check them and see if they thaw out a bit.
 

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TLS,
That's your loss if you do not have time, or choose to ignore the valuble info that hangs out in the other forums. Some of the forums "seem" slow as there are no specific questions being brought up, but when a question does come up, there seems to be plenty of valuble info posted in them. So I don't believe Chuck will be changing the way the site operates for your particular situation and participation style, and you'll just have to get used to having your threads put into the proper forum should they get moved. Happens to many members & many times a day. :D And members won't be receiving any notifications from me when that happens, because if I spent all of that time I wouldn't have time to get to hang out & enjoy the site with the amount of threads that get moved. :eek:

On to the salt issue. Like River Hill said, I have lost count of the amount of times this has happened over the years. Just part of being in this biz. Just have to wait til temps get back above freezing to drop them a few times to get them loose again, and hope they don't go back to cynder blocks before the next time they get used LOL. What I have done if I had a bunch that went bad at one time is head to one of the lots, drop all the bad bags. Cut them open and use a 10" x 10" hand tamper to crush them, or if a loader was available at the time we'd use that too. Last weekend we spent about 4 or 5 man hours picking, chopping, sledgehammering and then tamping about .75 - 1 ton of bulk that was in the bed of the truck from before Christmas and became concrete with the cold snap LOL. Like I said, part of being in the salting biz and it will happen again.
 

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On the subject of "frozen" salt in general. I posted this in a thread on the subject over on the "Brand X" site. Decided I might as well add it here.

>>>OK,, I'm going to start a little argument here. I really doubt that a pile of salt can "freeze" in the sense that water freezes. Any moisture that is in the pile will dissolve a minute amount of the surface of the salt crystals. That will make a brine which would be a saturated solution, the moisture would "melt" as much salt as could be suspended in solution. The resulting brine would be very concentrated and not apt to "freeze" at any temperature we are apt to see, short of the polar regions, maybe.

But, let's assume a set of conditions are met. First we need a salt pile that is either wet by exposure to free water, (rain or snow) or has absorbed water from the atmosphere. The salt particles will be coated with a thin film of saturated brine at this point.

Second condition is cold air. Cold air will hold less moisture in the form of vapor than warm air will. So cold air will have less moisture per volume than warm air will.

Surround our damp salt pile with cold air and the moisture that is holding salt in a brine will now want to pass into the drier air surrounding the pile. As the moisture leaves the brine the brine becomes super saturated and precipitates out in the form of tiny salt crystals. These crystals act as cement to bond the salt granules in the pile into a solid mass.

The effect is a solid pile, whether it has "frozen" or glued itself together.

Magic will help prevent this, not by preventing thermal freezing but by keeping the tiny crystals from attaching as tightly to the piles' granules. I try to keep a stockpile of Magic treated salt on hand. Right now I'm just about out and am having to use plain salt.

I just went through an epsiode with solid pile of about a ton and a half. The material was damp when I treated and stockpiled it. Two days ago it was solid! So solid that I could not poke a shovel into it. Yesterday it had softened and was usable again and I expect that tomorrow will find it virtually a rock.

Three days ago we were well down in the -10 range. Yesterday it was back up in the 20s. The subzero air was very dry, yesterday the humidity was up again. I had deliberately left the doors open on my bin so the air could circulate.

The next time I get some damp salt I think I'll try an experiment. I'll bring a bucket of it indoors and see what happens when damp salt is exposed to warm, dry air. If it turns into a brick that should support my theory.

As a thought, maybe the Halite didn't bind up because it is usually fairly large, uniform particles. These would have less area where surfaces of adjacent particles touch and could be glued together, whereas bulk salt has enough finer particles to fill the voids and provide a better bonding surface.<<<
 

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I am going along the lines of;

The salt has bonded it's self, that's why it's soild.

Wet frozen salt will break up.

I get a couple of guys who give us their soild bags of salt, we just toss them by a pile, drive over with loader and scooop it up.
 

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Salt does freeze. I have had bags of salt that are a solid brick. I put them in front of the turbo heater for a while, give them a shake and they are loose again. Heat seems to be the only way for me to get the salt loose in the bag again.
 

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Forgot about that thread. I will sometimes spray the frozen blocks of salt with a little water to help speed up the process of breaking them up into usable condition again. If I can easily get the water, and if I really need that salt ASAP and have no other available. Otherwise I just wait until the temps go back up & use it then. If I have time & the inclination and the energy, I have also done what Micah said. Except its just a regular kerosene heater in the garage, so it takes longer than the type of heater he's using. I try to avoid moving salt twice though, for my muscle's sake.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Full route just plowed and salted. In and out in 4 hrs flat!!!

Problematic bags were thawed. I simply just flop them over and over against the bed floor and they break up. Any clumps that are in them are real loose and you cant even reach in the hopper to grab them because they just crumble in your glove.

I'm once again a happy camper! :D

Thanks for the info everyone!

:cash
 
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