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Discussion Starter #1
Well I bought a 9' fisher stainless Fisher Sander on 11/1/06, with the Honda engine. I sure wish I had found this site before then.

The sander is supposed to have a 2 year warranty. It's running really rich, fouls the plug in about 15 min, and now I am told by "Maine's Largest Dealer" that they aren't allowed to even work on this engine:eek:. I was told to bring it to another dealer who has nothing to do with snow removal equip. Oh,yeah, the engine was only covered for 1 year:mad::mad:.

John Murphy, I would really be interested in finding out what you have to say about this. From talking to other people this is an on going problem with this engine. An engine that was highly reccomended by the dealers salesman.:mad:
 

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Its not just Fisher when it comes not being able to service the stuff they sell. Our Hi-Way has the same problem and the Honda Carb is now at the local lawn mower shop to get the carb rebuilt and the choke replaced. Bought the thing at JC Madigan several years ago and they have never been able to fix this properly and they mentioned that having a "Honda guy" do the service on the engine would be better. :rolleyes:

IMHO the biggest problem plow and sander manufactures have isn't the products they sell, it’s the people that sell them. If I had purchased a new car and received the same excuses I have such as "well why don't you bring it back to where you bought it"? Or "We don't service that model" or “why don't you bring it in two months from now?" I would have lit the car on fire and driven it through the showroom. These companies need stricter standards for becoming and maintaining the rights to sell these products such as servicing what you sell, stocking a certain level of parts based on the number of plows sold and just being reasonably competent in the servicing of these products. The bottom line though for most manufactures seems to be that if they sell the products it’s up to them whether or not they want to service them and at what level. Let’s face it, the plow companies need the dealers more than the dealers need the plow companies.

Sorry for the rant but I have had it with the incompetence I see every year in this industry when it comes to products that are costing as much or more than an entire vehicle when you compare the cost to hours worked.
 

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Not wanting to get off the subject but probably 20 years ago you had dealer who fixed what they sold. Now by todays crappy standards most say they sell everything because they have a flyer heck every one on this site could be a dealer for something.
Today dealer do not stock much of anything being product or parts.
Most do not have anyone that is old school who knows how to fix them.
And if they do the shop rate is probably over $100 an hours at a min.

Things are going down hill in this country fast as you can see by alot of co you might do bussiness with are being gobled up by other co's one very recent is bank of amercia taking over countrywide bank I know they put them self in that problem but as one gets bigger more problems arise.
 

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Its more of a agreement between Fisher and Honda, (kinda of like taking your Ford to GM and trying to get it covered under warranty). For the engine work to be covered under warranty, Honda wants Honda Autherized Shops to do the work (do you want a honda tech woring on your fisher blade?). I know that it doesnt make sense at first, but i was a truck equipment tech, not an engine tech. All Fisher and Honda are trying to do is to make sure that if your engine needs to be repaired that it gets repaired by people trained to do it right so that you dont get more upset.
 

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Honda engines are/were supposed to be bullet-proof . (Yes ,I have owned several Honda engine equipped items including an EM5000sxki Honda generator . ) and have been problem free . Sounds like Honda may having some issues . Should a Fisher dealer also be a small engine repair shop ? I would think they would farm that work out ?
 

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I think what makes every one upset is you buy something expensive and you expect them to be able to service you regardless of what engine is on top of the sander. so if fisher is using honda and brigs then the dealer if they are a full service dealer and not just some one selling of a peice of paper will send there guys to honda or where ever or even have fisher set up a train course for them to learn how to fix and main tain equipment on there products. Just seams logical to me .so if fisher started to use cat engines I would hope that they had there techs go to the loacal cat dealer for training or go to fisher for a training course.
 

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I think what makes every one upset is you buy something expensive and you expect them to be able to service you regardless of what engine is on top of the sander. so if fisher is using honda and brigs then the dealer if they are a full service dealer and not just some one selling of a peice of paper will send there guys to honda or where ever or even have fisher set up a train course for them to learn how to fix and main tain equipment on there products. Just seams logical to me .so if fisher started to use cat engines I would hope that they had there techs go to the loacal cat dealer for training or go to fisher for a training course.
Well said Rick!
 

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Have you tried replacing the air filter? They tend to plug very quickly when you allow them to run when traveling from site to site. Don't underestimate the ability of the grime that coats your vehicle to plug your air filters. From what you are describing it sounds like it could be it. I run three Torwell sanders, all with the Honda's, and that's what they do when the filters get plugged.

The other thing to check would be your electric choke solenoid and make sure it isn't sticking in the choked or partially choked position.
 

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I know it sounds logical to get techs certified but would you rather have someone who might have to work on 1 or 2 engines a year do the work or someone who does it all day long. The equipment co i was at would sell around 6 V-box spreaders installed (6 more cash and carry) per year. If we had a problem it was usually an electrical glitch that could be traced out. Anything more than a tune-up and we sent it out, engines werent our specialty and we just didnt see enough with problems to justify all the time and tools to do small engine teardowns and repairs. Secondly, the turn over rate for mechanics at the larger shops can be quit high and not all manufacturers have cert classes every day (western and fisher run theirs during the summer on a tour type basis) to get the new tech certified.

They are not trying to get out of servicing your spreader, they are just trying to get it serviced right.
 

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They are not trying to get out of servicing your spreader, they are just trying to get it serviced right.
You might be right in this case but honestly I can say I have had dealers that simply didn't want to fix the products I have purchased through them for one reason or another. If I was paying cash and the equipment was out of warranty, then they're all ears.

The dealer I bought my Hi-way from sells HUNDREDS OF THESE SANDERS and still their service department is at best, spotty. They must (just through pure volume) receive several of these units back every year and they still can't service them unless as mentioned, you’re paying cash. Forget about engine teardowns, they won't even hazard a guess as to what’s wrong with the unit. I realize this is the way of the world now but I'm here to say it wasn't always this way and just because something is the way it is, doesn’t make it right.
 

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When i was a DeVilbiss Air Compressor dealer , I had to send the customer to , or take the units to a factory authorized service centers for the engines. I wasn't allowed to touch them .
Luckly I had a service center that would work with Me and send Me what what I needed .
Bob
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Have you tried replacing the air filter? They tend to plug very quickly when you allow them to run when traveling from site to site. Don't underestimate the ability of the grime that coats your vehicle to plug your air filters. From what you are describing it sounds like it could be it. I run three Torwell sanders, all with the Honda's, and that's what they do when the filters get plugged.

The other thing to check would be your electric choke solenoid and make sure it isn't sticking in the choked or partially choked position.
I will change the filter tomorrow and see what happens, Both Alan Greene and I looked at it last week and it looks fine. Maybe it's plugged with fine salt dust.:beatsme

I do all my own small engine work so I will have to look into it further, I called the dealer because I was originally told by the salesman that the whole unit had a 2 year warranty. Now I am told it's two year on the sander, one year on the engine:mad::mad:. So from this point on I will be doing the work myself.

The choke was sticking but we freed that up and it still is fouling the plugs.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Its more of a agreement between Fisher and Honda, (kinda of like taking your Ford to GM and trying to get it covered under warranty).
No. it's more like taking your GM to a GM dealer and they tell you the problem is the engine and you need to take it to the Ford dealer to get it fixed.
 

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I have posted on the issues with my Honda so many times it's sickening.

the issue is this: FISHER INSTALLS SOME OF THE THROTTLE & CHOKE MECHANISM'S. Honda says that's a Fisher issue, Fisher says it's a Honda issue. Either way, yes the saleman lied to you, he did it to me and to others who are in the same boat. Their motto is "Anything for a sale".

If you can corner a mechanic out on the main floor of said fly-by-night Fisher dealer they will tell you privately that the Honda is junk and that they have pallets of them out back that have grenaded. A couple of them spoke to me about it and explained the issue to me several years ago.

Fisher will not stand behind their sanders, been there done that.

And I doubt seriously that Mr. Murphy will chime in here. If he does it will be the usual promise to take care of it and had you not raised a stink you'd be on your own.

I don't mean to sound cynical, but after the royal shafting I have taken from these crooks, I have no use for Fisher or their largest dealer.:mad:

I used to be a diehard Fisher man, never again will I spend a dime on any product of theirs and I intend to share my complaints with anyone who will listen, Fisher and Messer certainly won't.

Insert "single finger salute" smiley here.
 

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Thanks Roger, I'll go take my blood pressure pill now.:popcorn2
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Sorry Alan,

I still like Fisher plows, but I sure wish I had talked to you before I bought this sander. I changed the oil like we talked about, ran it for 45 min. running like crap, put three plugs in it. Checked oil again today, way high and ran out of motor like, you guessed it, gasoline.:mad:

I have an old Briggs in the warehouse, I may end up putting that on. I'll try the air filter first though and do a compression check. This thing is 14 months old and maybe 40 hrs topps on the motor. This is not just a Honda problem, this is MAINLY a Fisher problem. If they aren't willing to stand behind their product it may be time to run a new brand of plow. We run 7 Fisher plows now, have owned 12, at this point I would REALLY like to here from some one from Fisher. John hasn't been on here in over 10 days so tomorrow I will call Rockland and try talking to someone in person.
 

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good luck with that.
 

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Sorry Alan,

I still like Fisher plows, but I sure wish I had talked to you before I bought this sander. I changed the oil like we talked about, ran it for 45 min. running like crap, put three plugs in it. Checked oil again today, way high and ran out of motor like, you guessed it, gasoline.

I have an old Briggs in the warehouse, I may end up putting that on. I'll try the air filter first though and do a compression check. This thing is 14 months old and maybe 40 hrs topps on the motor. This is not just a Honda problem, this is MAINLY a Fisher problem. If they aren't willing to stand behind their product it may be time to run a new brand of plow. We run 7 Fisher plows now, have owned 12, at this point I would REALLY like to here from some one from Fisher. John hasn't been on here in over 10 days so tomorrow I will call Rockland and try talking to someone in person.

You know what Fisher told me their solution was? Get out of the truck and turn the gas on when you start the sander, get out and turn it off when you shut off the sander. WTF!

Maybe they could just include a freaking shovel and save me the effort of screwing with their sander.:mad:

The tech told me to use caution when running the motor when it is acting up. If you flood it and it fires it will throw the connecting rod through the side of the crank. That's why they had a pallet of Hondas with cranks hanging out the side a few years back.

I'm amazed (well, maybe not):rolleyes: that in the 7 years or so since I have had mine and they first had this issue they are still selling them and lying to the customers about how great they are. Your saleman (Patrick) knows of the issue I had as I went up one side of him and down the other about what a piece of crap it was at the time. The techs joked about the Hondas and the issues they had the four or five times I was there to have them work on it.

After that, I gave up and re-designed the choke/throttle mechanism so I wouldn't have to deal with those morons. I can show you what I did to get rid of the CF that Fisher puts on.

Everytime this subject comes up I get PO. Not only did they charge me and extra $800 for something that was more troubles than it's less expensive counter part, but they lied to me. Further, they then refused to work on it and then lied about the original off-set chute fiasco. Then, they refused to reimburse me for the repairs I made to correct the motor and chute issue once they admitted it was a warranty item.

Learned my lesson, Fisher can pound sand.

I'll get off my soapbox now.
 

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Boy am I glad my V Box's all run Briggs and Techumsa's. Not a problem with any of them. Choke, start, idle down and ready to rock. I love my Honda powered pumps, compactors and gens but it sounds like the vertical shaft units have issues.


OCS
Gas in the oil sounds like i sticking float valve or screwed up float that has gas in it and is heavy. Maybe just the float was never adjusted properly from the beginning. Also.. I have 2 honda filters that look new from a horizontal shaft splitter and a pump but won't pass air. One had gas spilled on it and one got soaking wet. You can let them dry for a month and still will not pass air. Don't know why but thats a fact. Try changing it out and see what happens... better yet just fire it up and run it without a filter to make sure before you spend the money.
 

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Good point John. I have a friend who should be ashamed of himself the way he treats equipment. All of his is Honda powered, and it all starts every day, and runs all day. They are all on Power Trowels, Mortar Mixers, Compactors, etc. and all Horizontal shaft motors (maybe not the trowels). He's a mason that works year round.

Going back a few years I worked for a company with 3 spreaders. One was an Air Flo, and two were Westerns. I know the Westerns were 10HP Briggs engines, and I think the Air Flo was too, though it might have been a Tecumseh. The Air Flo had 0 problems, unless you didn't know when to take off the choke and flooded it. The one Western ran good most of the time. The other filled the crankcase with gas. I was too busy to look at it, so they sent it to the small engine shop. They put a new carb on it. First time out after that, guess what? Crankcase full again. Brand NEW carb. Naturally they wanted me to look at it, but I was still too busy, and told them to take it back.

The quick get-through-the-storm fix was to shut off the gas between sites. The driver decided not to.

That same mason friend of mine bought a Suzuki generator one year. Guess what? He could not find a Suzuki dealer to work on it.... go figure.

~Chuck
 
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