Snowplow Forums banner
1 - 17 of 17 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
3 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Newby in this industry, customers requested we add this to our pavement maintance business. Here in Nashville Tn, we do not have heavy snows Worst being 4". Our biggest problem is freezing rain or little 1"-2" snows that thaw then refreeze. Here Dow flakes seem to be the norm used (We have 2 pallots in inventory). Need Ideas on preapply, amounts and when best to re-apply. Also here, most contracts are charged by hr and by bags used, not a per lot basis.
We can use all of your help. It's hard to ask questions when you don't know what questions to ask.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,741 Posts
Welcome to SC.com! You'll probably find all the answers you need, once you figure them out, then we'll quiz you LOL.

Dow is a big chemical company & it's possible they market several anit or deicing chemicals. So like CPSS said, we first need to know what exactly is in the bag to help you. Each different material would kind of be used in different ways & different application rates.

Charging by the bag is fine, especially just starting out. Then once you have experience with the products you are using you will be able to down the road make accurate estimates of how much you will need & be able to offer per application prices to your customers. As you can see there is plenty of reading to go through here, so check out some of the threads. That will help answer questions & generate new ones to ask. Good luck.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
382 Posts
I have seen the DOWFLAKE 70-85% calcium chloride at Home Depot - $15 for 50lbs!
 

·
Site Founder
Joined
·
5,721 Posts
The flakes are like Epsom Salts (as far as shape, etc.)..... You can get Calcium, Potassium, and Magnesium flakes. The flakes don't "burn in" like the pellets do, but they work a little faster, because they dissolve faster.

Just remember, if it takes 50# of pellets to de-ice a given area, then it will take 50# of flakes to do the same job. 50# is 50#....

I would imagine that the flakes don't spread as well as the pellets.... and I can only imagine how a bag of flakes would solidify if exposed to moisture.

I have a feeling the flakes are marketed more for dust control than de-icing in your area Jim. (Fact: Calcium Chloride, and Magnesium Chloride are used on baseball diamonds, dirt roads, and horse farms/race tracks to keep down dust when things dry out).

Just keep the "50# of material is 50# of material" in mind, and read up on application rates.

How are you spreading the flakes?

A good starting point is the application rates for de-icing that should be on the bags.

~Chuck
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
It is calcium cloride 77-80% but only paying about 11.00/50lb.
We plan to pre apply if it is not a rain turning to freezing rain/snow. Like I said, the problem with being a newby is the so called common sense things that you'all do without thinking are the things that get us newbys into trouble because we DON'T know what to ask. This is why I an so glad this sight is here. Like I said, may only have 5-6 days work this winter, but we have to make them count. Also, am using a Meyers 3600 spreader and Meyers plow.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
620 Posts
Jim, why not just use salt? If it doesn't get that cold, salt works just fine, and is half the cost.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
There is a lot of concrete here and the salt seems to eat into it. Also i'm told that w/the freezing rain, cal clo seems to work better. Again, I'm just using what seems to be the norm here. Is cal clo safer then salt? I don't know. Other than price what are the advantages vs disadvantages of either product? That I would like to know.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
168 Posts
Jim,
I too am in Nashville and have no clue as to who is telling you what to use and how to price. Maybe where you are buying the product?

E-Mail me and we will get together and I will try to help out a little. It could never hurt.
 

·
Site Founder
Joined
·
5,721 Posts
Well, salt is less effective as the temps drop. Once you start getting into the low teens, you need more salt to melt the same amount of ice. Calcium Chloride works well below zero.

Calcium Chloride is much more corrosive to steel than salt is.

Both are bad for concrete if overapplied, though Calcium is less harmful.

As far as which is better for freezing rain, well, the flakes will dissolve and become diluted faster than a granular product. Once a de-icer is diluted, it stops working. Rock salt will take longer to dissolve than flakes or pellets.

That should give you a general explanation.

There is more, but I need to go to work now.....

~Chuck
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
979 Posts
Did a search on this and thought that I'd bring it back up. I am looking at the difference between rock salt and calcium chloride. They both are corrosive, no doubt. But which one is actually more corrosive, or are they about the same? There is a client who has several concrete sidewalks that told me that calcium chloride need to be used becaue the rock salt "chews up the sidewalks". I kind of knew that it is not 100% correct because calcium chloride is corrosive too. If CaCl is as corrosive as rock salt, then I see no reason to waste money on CaCl when temperature is in favor for rock salt to work. Of course, when it get really cold, then CaCl would be the only choice. It just would be a waste of money when it is not necessary to use CaCl unless they are less harmful to concrete.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
321 Posts
snonut12 said:
I am looking at the difference between rock salt and calcium chloride. They both are corrosive, no doubt. But which one is actually more corrosive, or are they about the same?
OK.........I love these.

Would you like me to post the comments from:

Dow Chemical
Cargill
North American Salt
Others

Depending upon which brochure - article (propaganda) you read, you will find out that each one is better than the other.

If you want a guarantee and can afford about $80.00 per bag, you can use straight CMA (100%) and be sure there will be no harm to the concrete.

Since we have started this post again, I would be willing to post any info that the forum members wish to see.plowing!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
979 Posts
I do not care what each manufacturer claims. All I need to know is the FACT between these type of deicing materials.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,442 Posts
Stephen

Dow Chemical is Midlands main employer if you scroll up Chuck brought up some very good points about Flake Vs Pellets . Because they are here and we being locals can buy at a good price , like Chuck said i use Dow flake for the parking lots at the old shop to keep the dust down. I use PelaDow 'pellets' for deicing walks not sure what Peladow sells for outside of Midland i buy 5 gal pals for 28.50 i know there more elsewere. I think you will find with what ever brand you decide on Peladow is packaged by several companys under a ton of names the stuff does work well however does leave alot of chalk behind which some dont like because it gets tracked all over there offices.

Dow makes alot of stuff drytech the stuff that goes in diapers. They sold zip lock and saran wrap to SC Johnson , there big into medicine, and most people dont know that Dow automotive makes tons of parts for cars plastic.

Herbert Dow started his chemical plant here the primary product in the begining was salt brine which if you ever pass threw Midland you see tons of old Brinewells . They also produced Agent orange, and are heavy into pestisides and herbidsides.

Across the Street is Dow Corning Midlands Second largest employer a great company that almost went belly up over breast implants but has come full circle and is now producing some of the best silcone products and are big into making computer chips at there Semi conductor plant here.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
126 Posts
Correct me if I am wrong. But being corrosive or not has nothing to do with being harmful to concrete or what ever. It's the melting temperatures (freeze/thaw) that effects damage to concrete along with the quality of the concrete. Bad concrete is bad concrete and will fail no matter what you put on it and that includes water. Salt is used on highways here on concrete and its all high psi concrete. Am I wrong?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
321 Posts
lush&green said:
Correct me if I am wrong. But being corrosive or not has nothing to do with being harmful to concrete or what ever. It's the melting temperatures (freeze/thaw) that effects damage to concrete along with the quality of the concrete.
I guess I will somewhat correct you.

The main damage to concrete that a lot of people refer - is the damage to the rebar. When salt - treated or not - is applied, the concrete is very porous and the sodium ion attaches the rebar and rusts it causing stress and finally weaking the rebar so that the concrete cracks and needs to be replaced.

Short and simple.
 
1 - 17 of 17 Posts
Top