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Discussion Starter #41
Wizard said:
Reading the FMCSA website, they defined a CMV as over 10k AND engaged in INTERSTATE commerce, unless you're a for-hire motor carrier (get paid to haul cargo) of any weight Intrastate. So my understanding is that these rules only apply if you're a private carrier crossing state lines (part 390.21). And one section says a CMV is only a truck with a GVW over 26k (part 383.5) I could totally be wrong here, but thats how I'm interpreting it. This is also how it was explained to me in a class on this subject in 2004. If they changed something in July to include vehicles over 10k used only in-state, they haven't updated the regs on the site...


Brendan
It goes on to say in the definition of a commercial vehicle is any vehicle that is used to "generate" income.

If you are using your truck which has a registered weight of 10,001 pounds or greater and use it in "a business" it is generating income. If you own a truck registered over 10,001 and use it to pull your RV then it is not deemed a commercial vehicle.

If you use the same truck to haul dirt for use in your driveway you still do not need it but if you haul the dirt for free in your truck for someone elses driveway and then charge to spread it you have just caused your vehicle to become a commercail vehicle because now it has been involved in "generating" revenue.
 

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CGSI said:
Jake
From the site

The safety audit will be conducted by a State or Federal Auditor and will consist of a review of the carrier's safety management system. The areas of review include, but are not limited to, the following:

Driver Qualifications;
Driver Duty Status;
Vehicle Maintenance;
Accident Register; and
Controlled Substances and Alcohol use and testing requirements
I'm screwed:
Driver Qualifications--Can you fog a mirror?
Driver Duty Status--Work or be fired
Vehicle Maintenance--Does it start without dropping parts, starting a fire (No new Fords yet) or large puddles of hazardous waste?
Accident Register--we don't register accidents, we try and hide 'em as best we can
Controlled Substances and Alcohol use and testing requirements--Gave up on controlling them and yes I use alcohol, and I'm no good at taking tests.

:jk Better hope it's the 18-24 months and not sooner. Didn't read that part. :headwall
 

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It would seem then that they're saying that every guy with a 1 ton truck with a plow is going to have to put their name, city, state, and DOT number on the truck. That should work real well, good luck on the enforcement effort. How many 1 ton trucks do I see out plowing without such information on the doors in any given storm... I guess the older trucks were OK since they were only 9900 GVWR, but I'd be screwed in my 05 with 11k GVWR. Wonder what the penalties are if you take your chances and get caught...:eek:
 

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Discussion Starter #45
Wizard said:
It would seem then that they're saying that every guy with a 1 ton truck with a plow is going to have to put their name, city, state, and DOT number on the truck. That should work real well, good luck on the enforcement effort. How many 1 ton trucks do I see out plowing without such information on the doors in any given storm... I guess the older trucks were OK since they were only 9900 GVWR, but I'd be screwed in my 05 with 11k GVWR. Wonder what the penalties are if you take your chances and get caught...:eek:


A buddy of mine was fined 2500
 

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Another thing people need to be awre of is IFTA stickers. They apply not only to vehicles in excess of 26k GVW but also combinations in excess of 26K. So when you hook your 550 up to a bobcat trailer you are now in excess of 26k and are required to display IFTA stickers.
 

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Brendan, If you dont steve is right. The penalty is a lot more then its worth to not do it. I paid about $150 for a set of magnetic signs. I used to use them when I was working. Then when i wanted to take the camper or the boat out I just took the magnets off and had a personal vehicle. A small sign with name and city/state and dot number is an easy fix. Plus when i got my Dot number it only took a few minutes. And it was free for me to get it. All my vehicles either have my company name on them or they have a magnetic sign that would match that truck should I need to use it for commercial work. Even the wifes truck has some magnets just in case.
 

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OK, what is an IFTA sticker and what BS does that involve?

I think I'll double up on my happy pills. :eek:
 

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Mark Oomkes said:
OK, what is an IFTA sticker and what BS does that involve?

I think I'll double up on my happy pills. :eek:

Interstate Fuel Tax Agreement.......I think. Do a search online for it. It's run by the Department of revenue.
 

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Big Dog D said:
Another thing people need to be awre of is IFTA stickers. They apply not only to vehicles in excess of 26k GVW but also combinations in excess of 26K. So when you hook your 550 up to a bobcat trailer you are now in excess of 26k and are required to display IFTA stickers.

Only for interstate travel, not if you only do intrastate (don't leave your state), correct?

I operate within 100 miles of home, so I avoid a lot of hassles.
 

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atgreene said:
Only for interstate travel, not if you only do intrastate (don't leave your state), correct?

I operate within 100 miles of home, so I avoid a lot of hassles.
The International Fuel Tax Agreement (IFTA) is an agreement between all 48 contiguous states, and 10 Canadian provinces. It enables participating jurisdictions to cooperate in the collection and administration of motor fuel taxes. An IFTA account is set up with the base state, which authorizes travel in all IFTA jurisdictions. Then a single quarterly report must be filed with the base state, reporting miles traveled and fuel purchased in each state. The base state is responsible for dispersing the funds to the other jurisdictions. You need an IFTA license if you travel in two or more member jurisdictions, and if your vehicle either weighs more than 26,000 pounds, OR has three or more axles, regardless of weight. From DOTAuthority.com

In some states, such as CT, if you do not have an IFTA sticker, you will need a STATE TAX sticker and subsequent reporting. If you pay your taxes at the pump, it's easy.

Funny how they don't tell you anywhere that if you run taxed road fuel in off-road machines, that you can take the amount of the road tax paid as a deduction on your tax return. :cash
 

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John Banks said:
The International Fuel Tax Agreement (IFTA) is an agreement between all 48 contiguous states, and 10 Canadian provinces. It enables participating jurisdictions to cooperate in the collection and administration of motor fuel taxes. An IFTA account is set up with the base state, which authorizes travel in all IFTA jurisdictions. Then a single quarterly report must be filed with the base state, reporting miles traveled and fuel purchased in each state. The base state is responsible for dispersing the funds to the other jurisdictions. You need an IFTA license if you travel in two or more member jurisdictions, and if your vehicle either weighs more than 26,000 pounds, OR has three or more axles, regardless of weight. From DOTAuthority.com

In some states, such as CT, if you do not have an IFTA sticker, you will need a STATE TAX sticker and subsequent reporting. If you pay your taxes at the pump, it's easy.

Funny how they don't tell you anywhere that if you run taxed road fuel in off-road machines, that you can take the amount of the road tax paid as a deduction on your tax return. :cash
Shhh, they don't want anybody to know that. We've been doing it for years, it can also be done for gas equipment, i.e. lawn mowers.
 

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They aren't that expensive to get, I think they are like $8+/- it's just a little bit of paper work involved that's a PIA but the secretary takes care of it.
 

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personally, i can see where you guys are coming from that have larger trucks and pull trailers, which look to anyone as being commercial, but like brendan said, you think all the guys out there with one ton trucks with plows or even doing constuction like me, are going to have these numbers on the sides of their trucks. i never have gotten bothered by a cop or a checkpoint for commercial vehicles. they always nail the guys with trailers hauling skid steers, or larger 450s and up with dumps on them. or just the large dumps and triaxles.
My pickup is lettered and is registered commercially. it's registered for 12,500, but the GVW from the factory is 11,400
I might get these numbers but it just seems like a waste. most pickups don't really stand out as COMMERICAL vehicles to cops or anyone else checking because there are so many NONE commercial pickups out there.

i don't think i've seen one 1ton pickup with these dot #'s on them at all. only larger trucks.
 

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Don't come to New York without them Dan. DOT grabs anyone and everyone, smaller trucks have really been given a hard time around here lately. They are sticklers too. I met John Q. Public at the local farm store a few weeks ago and DOT ticketed him for moving his pleasure boat with his 3/4 ton pickup. At 9' wide it was 6" overwidth and he didn't have the proper permit.

Perhaps in your locale they aren't enforcing, up here they are with vigilance! It's not a matter of if you'll get caught, but when. Been there, done that.
 

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Dan, you hit right on the point I was trying to make. Virtually every professional lawn service around here has the required markings on their truck, mainly because they're the ones that get picked on the most, and often times rightfully so. Having been well exposed to the green industry, I've seen some stuff that makes my stomach turn it's so unsafe. I've never been bothered when I wasn't pulling a trailer, and probably never will, simply because I blend in so well with the rest of the "unmarked" one tons on the road. And in the middle of a snowstorm, the cops have enough to do, they aren't enforcing DOT rules on plow trucks, especially if you aren't doing anything unsafe. Now, if you're driving down the road with the plow on and your lights flashing, you're attracting attention, and more likely to get picked on since cops hate other people having lights to begin with. Likewise if you're breaking other laws (speeding, etc) or being unsafe, they could very well throw the book at ya, but very unlikely you'll get picked on just driving down the road minding your own business...

The other problem is, my truck is used for primary employment not related to the snow business, having lettering on the side of the truck would be a very bad idea. And magnets are out of the question, if you saw the doors on my 2000 F350 you'd agree with me.

Another good point here is that until a few years ago, unless it was a dually, a 1 ton only had a GVWR of 9900lbs, so these rules didn't apply anyway. Do you think the DOT guys are on it enough to pick the higher GVWR 1 tons out of a crowd, in hopes he's "engaged" in commercial activities so they could nail you? Dont think so. Regardless, I'm watching this conversation with interest, but wont be running right out to get a DOT number and plastering it all over the sides of my truck. If I pulled a trailer all day or something where I'd be a bigger target, for sure, but not just because I have a plow hangin' off the front of my truck for 15 days out of the year...
 

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i went to that link to get one. and it seems like most of the questions and choices are all geared towards big rigs or larger trucks, not pickups. i dont' transport any materials owed by someone else etc. i own my tools. i drive to the jobsite and i do the job. the materials are most of the time delivered to the jobsite by the lumber yard.

steve, i was just up in ny state on that snowmobile trip. with my truck, hauling a 102 wide sled trailer and never had an issue, maybe it was luck, myaybe not but my truck just blended in with any other crewcab out there who doesnt' own a business. i had my trac racs slid off too
 

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Discussion Starter #58
dapgar said:
i went to that link to get one. and it seems like most of the questions and choices are all geared towards big rigs or larger trucks, not pickups. i dont' transport any materials owed by someone else etc. i own my tools. i drive to the jobsite and i do the job. the materials are most of the time delivered to the jobsite by the lumber yard.

steve, i was just up in ny state on that snowmobile trip. with my truck, hauling a 102 wide sled trailer and never had an issue, maybe it was luck, myaybe not but my truck just blended in with any other crewcab out there who doesnt' own a business. i had my trac racs slid off too

Dan
You were ok hauling your snowmobile trailer because unless you were "trucking" them for others for revenue it is clearly a personal use and DOT numbers are not required.

The guy with the boat on the other hand that Steve mentioned had other issues as well because he needed an over dimensional permit because of his width.

Where you see all the questions about "big rigs" is obscuring your view of the simpler point which is commercial vehicles over 10,001 lbs. Those questions are mostly to help you decide if you need DOT operating authority as well.

If you look up NYS and most states definintion of commercial vehicle requiring DOT numbers you will see that they define commercial as any vehicle that is used in conjunction with producing revenue. The Law for the lower weight of 10,001 just went into effect April 2006 and became enforcable in July 2006.
 

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I never meant to imply that anyone who comes to NY without numbers will be fined, but consider it this way: Not everyone who speeds gets a ticket for it, but do it often enough and the odds of getting a ticket increase. The same holds true for these DOT numbers. The longer you run without them, the greater the odds of getting ticketed for not having them. Maybe it will never happen, it sounds like DOT enforcement in some areas is not as tough as it is here. I've got them on my trucks, the $20 I had to spend for them is far less than the fine I'd face or the value of the time I'd lose appearing in court.

I remember when I was a kid, all pickups had the weight ratings posted on the sides of the bed, it was a DOT requirement. Even 1/2 tons were required to have them.
 

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One potential help with requirement of putting the city/state on the trucks. Here in Michigan at least, you can register your logo with the state and get it "service marked" like a trademark. As long as you do this, there is no requirement to put a city and state on the truck in any size lettering. You just have to keep a copy of the state paperwork in the vehicle in case motor carrier pulls you over, and around here they do ALL the time.

For you Michigan guys, I believe the lettering requirement here is 3 inches high.
 
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