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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
The rear end in my 2001 2500HD 4x4 had been making lot of noise from the day I picked it up. I was told is was just the new designed HEAVY DUTY rear end nothing to worry about. As the noise, chatter, and clunking between D/R got worst I took it in at 27,000 miles for a pre-winter serivce and inspection.

They found the gears in the rear worn bad and reaplced the inter/outer pinoin and left and right carrier bearings. Service manager told me there was a problem with the way the gears were set into the diff. from the factory. The noise was gone and it was like having a new truck it was so quiet. Also had to had the rear rotor replaced that was $1000.00 just for the rear bakes and rotors.

Now at just 29,500 miles the noise is back, chatter, and clunking too. Took the shop foreman for a ride today and his words, "Oh yeah, I can hear that. That is not right we need to get back in there and see what is gone wrong. There it way too much run out in the gear"

This is a plow truck and I am running a 8' Pro, plus a 8' - 2yrd V box. Nothing more than I see the other guys running. I just can not understand why the rear end issue, again.

Is anyone else running the same set up having any drive line issues?

I am looking at replacing this truck next year with a F-350 PSD anyway but just would like to research this to see if it is isolated. I think the gas engine does not have enough low end torque to turn the rear under a load at low RPMs with out wearing out the gear.

My 2003 F-450 4x4 with the PSD and torqueshift tranny is a monster. 141" WB 9' dump with 4.5 tons of salt in tow/haul you can really fell the shift points change on upshifting and downshifting too. That will be the biggest reason to change to the F-350 with the PSD and the torqueshift tranny. That is taking most of the strees off the drive line I belive.

Thanks
 

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Ron, I wouldn't think that the gas engine has anything to do with it. If the dealership is anything like any around here, that could be the problem. A guy I went to highschool with works at a Lincoln DShip here in town, he's as lazy as a sloth, and sadly dumb as a box of rocks, he's the one that gets to do many of the rear gear installs, although I've heard after some work that came back on him, he's demoted to "squeaks and rattles" What I'm trying to say, is that it could be the way the gears are installed that is causing this problem. If they are not checked and set perfectly, they will wear quickly, groan, or chew up bearings.

Just something to check, beyond just a truck-related problem.
 

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first I have heard of a rear end failure. the 11.5 axel is the same one thier are putting in the new dodges with the cumins. There is a guy with a wicked Duramax running 11's on hid rear and doing lots of truck pulling to and hasnt nuked one.

I think the gas engine does not have enough low end torque to turn the rear under a load at low RPMs with out wearing out the gear.
The motor is to weak to keep from wearing things out? Dont think I quite understand you?

Torque shift aint as beefy as an allison. The reason the allison shifts so soft is its the way it was made. It learns how much pressure it needs to apply and how quick it needs to shift without being noticed. Truthfully I would prefer it to just come at me with both barrles but I guess the nice ride aint all bad. Its doing just enough(by what it has learned from your driving habbits) to get the job done and be as unnoticed as possible. I know that if I drop down the power output on my duramax(taking the truck from chiped to stock) that it feels like its got a shift kit for awhile untill it learns to deal with the lesser amount of power. You will feel this to if you are driving around with it heavily loaded and then drive it empty.....it will have a firmer shift. It takes a number of shifting cycles to learn and it learns and will act different for different throttle positions.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Not really sure what I am trying to say about the gas engine and the way power is applied to the rear end just that there has to be some type of issue maybe higher RPM between D/R causing the damage, where the torqueshift will not go into gear at high RPMs preventing the gear slamming that you get with the current set up. I have personally plowed with both trucks and although there is a two step weight class gap the drive tran has some major differences too.

I do know that when I turn on the tow/haul in the Chevy I have never felt any difference in the way the tranny shifts, but in the Ford you can tell the tranny is working when in tow/haul. Mainly on coming to stops or slowing in traffic. There is a huge reduction in the force applied to the rear end when the tranny is taking on most of the load. Just like in the biger trucks. There is just a more even application of torque in the Ford drive line but that is what you expect from a working truck.

I think the difference really is that Chevy has a great truck if you are looking for something to work once in awhile and still have a nice smooth driving vehicle for every day use. I know that is what made me go with the Chevy over Ford at the time. Two years ago my business was part time and I need a truck but was giving up my car. Chevy had a nicer softer ride empty with same payload and GVWR.

I am doing more plowing now and the leaf springs and solid front axel is clearly a stronger design. The torsion bars and coils springs do give a nice ride but when moving a load with 10,000lbs plus behind it I think the soild axel is stronger. Again the Chevy has done great so far but I can feel a difference in the front end when plowing with the Ford.

My business is full time now and the demand for trucks to run hard and heavy more often. The F-450 has really made me see the difference between a WORKING truck and a daily driver. I just think the F-350 will meet the needs I have based on the new demands of my business.

The Chevy is a great daily driver and has for the most part done a fine job. VERY dependable, great ride, pushed lots of snow for the past two seasons and great so far this year. But as for the all around every day working truck, I think Ford might have the better truck. When going from 4 accounts to 30 and from plow for 6-8 hours to 12 -16 hours a softer empty ride is NO longer important.

Not a brand war just what I am seeing from between both truck 1st hand.
 

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Sorry, kinda forgot you had a 6.0 when I made my coments.....the 6.0 comes with the 4l80e. A good trany but it does not act like the allison.

I personally think something is screwed from the factory and not corrected or detected by the tech or the tech just screwed up after the factory did.

Trust me when I say that that little 6.0 cant put anything close to the same abuse my truck has seen or others have put thiers through :burnout no matter how hard the trany is shifting. Even if you were barking the tires in every shift the ujoints would grenade before the rear end. JMO

Did I say abuse :confused: I mean I baby my baby :greenange I must say though my friend was pissed when I told him I would throw another 1000#'s in the back if he wanted to run me in his tiburan again :D Like I said.....dont think its your motor ;)

Good luck with the new Ford. We will still talk to you even if you dont own a Chevy, besideds.....you'll be back :p j/k:)
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I am sure the loaded 8' V box salt spreader can put some stress on the drive line too.

I drove a 2001 Tahoe while I was a Police Officer working traffic. I know the Chevy can take some abuse. 0-30 took a while but from 30 - 100+ was like right NOW.

This rear end issue is not the only reason I am thinking about going to the F-350 PSD. Remember, I am still looking at the D/M and Allision hook up if they bring back the 3500 in SRW, but the front end set up is something to also be considered.

Running 11's and hauling over 5,000lbs and than plowing to boot is two totally different worlds.
 

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The axel used in the chevy is an 11.5 american(I'm pretty sure that even the 6.0 gets it). Its a beffy unit. Heck, the corprate full floating 14 bolt was a stout rear end. Even the 14 bolt semi floaters are stout. I've plowed before and the only way I think you could put heavy abuse like the abuse of runing an 11 in a 6000# truck or sled pulling is if you are spinning the heck outa your tires and bite good traction. That is hard as hell on a rear. JMO but if you are looking at getting away from chevy because of the rear.

The problems you are facing arnt fragging issues due to too much force IMO. Its not a case of to much stress and it coming apart. when a rear end goes from too much force being ran through it, it goes imediatly with parts scattering. Over forcing something can happen with too much load being placed through it(drag racing without a trany brake) or a sudden spike(wich is harder on things and can have more force than a constant deal) like a nutral drop or spinning your tires and getting traction or one of the biggest killers of rear end wheel hop. In very high load applications you can get deflection of parts and they will start to wear very fast and scatter themselves but that is a very high load thats needed. A 6.0 dosnt have enough balls to break a rear outright with normal sized tires. It needs to use a spike or a sudden force to apply enough to hurt the rear(like a N drop) and I believe you would have fragged a U joint. It would also either frag it or not......it wouldnt just cause it to wear fast IMO. I would expect a 10 bolt to stay together longer that 2500 miles behind a 6.0 if you drive even remotly sanely.

I'm sure that if that axel was inheritantly weak(a 6.0 blowing it up twice in 30k would constitue weak) that mine would have given up the gost long ago and other Duramax and Dodge guys would be talking. IMO the axel is a stout MF

Chevy does have a new SRW 1 ton :cool: But the front axel and axel rating is the same 4800# I believe.

I was kinda scared of the front end and didnt like the lower capacity of the chevy but the new 6.0's scared the bejesue outa me. If Ford still offered the good old powerstroke instead of the new 6.0 when I was shopping Ford vrs. Chevy would have been a much tougher decision. Very glad I didnt get an early 6.0, I still dont trust that they got it straightened out yet but I wish you luck no matter what you buy. Supposedly dodge finnaly got thier trany figured out as well as the rest of the truck so maybe it wont be a case of buying a Cumins but unfortunatly having it wrapped in a Dodge. Dont know who I will go with next time. The comp is really getting stiff and they are trying to all put out a better truck :cool: A good thing for everyone
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
LGF,

I did not get to see the gears they took out the first time, but it sure does seem like the fact that it has happen again in such a short time really has me wondering. I am really thinking there is something else wrong with the diff case causing the gears to go out of round and wearing. The comments of the shop foreman did not help my confidence. Hearing the *** *** *** as you are driving really make you wonder.

I just want it fix and want to be sure it is not going to let good in the middle of a storm with a V box full of salt. Also seeing how I am getting close to the end of 36/36 I want the thing to be fixed and to last more than 3,000 miles.

I am glad to hear that this rear end has a strong rep. and I am not sure if I can afford to take a chance continuing driving it after it gets fixed this time. I hate to even think about what I would do if I have to eat $8K in repairs if it goes to bits after the 36/36.

Everyone is talking about the effects of excessive spinning of the gears but what does all the weight do the the axels. What is the weight is causing everything to be out of line could that cause the wear pushing the gears out of round??
 

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Excessive ring gear runout is usually due to a bad or warped case.Not the housing (called the carrier),but the case,which is what the ring gear bolts to.

It was either warped from the factory,or the ring gear bolts were not torqued evenly.Putting a new ring and pinion in,on the old warped case will result in another failure.The case mau have a burr on it too,which prevents the ring gear from seating properly.

The solution is a new case,ring and pinion,and ring gear bolts.Ring gear should be drawn on slowly with the old bolts,and then the new bolts installed,and torqued to spec.After the gearset is installed,a dial indicator should be used to check the ring gear runout to make sure it is within spec.If it's off,rotate the ring gear 180 degrees on the case to see if it improves.If it's still not within spec,you have a bad case or ring gear,right out of the box.It's not uncommon.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Chris,

That is the conversation I had with the shop foreman. I do think the case is bad causing the new gear to have gone bad. Seems like if they would have fixed it within the 1st 100 miles when I took it in the 1st time maybe this all would not be happening at all. If they open it up and find the gears ate to shavings I will be fighting for a replacement rear end.

I will tell you that if I have to be in the shop everday between now and 36,000 miles to get this fixed right it will leave a bad taste in my mouth after telling everyone how GREAT my 2500HD has been for a work truck. NO ONE buys a work truck expecting only to get 36,000 miles out of it that is for sure.

Two friends of mine even replaced their Fords in 2001 and 2002 with the Chevy and they both comment how nice a ride it is empty compared to the Ford, but I already covered that.

Lets see what happens, it goes in Thursday for them to start taking it apart. Just what I was trying to avoid. Having one of my plow/salt trucks in the shop mid season. I'll keep you all updated.
 

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I agree with wyldman here. It sounds like the original rear has a pinion depth problem from the gear whine. After it was reapired it wasnt whining,so hopefully they got the pinion depth right.If thats not off,it has to be the dif case or a carrier . The rear in the dmax and 8100 is an 11.5 the one i nthe 6.0 is smaller it is not the same rear end,it uses the 10.5 ,which is a good rear end. My old 91GMC has 105K on it,the rears never be touched exc to put in a powertrax locker,and to change the fluid,and i urn it hard,its go a v box all winter.It is only a 9.5" btw.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
John,

I know I see allot of the Chevy 2500HD's on the road after they did not offer a 3500 SRW for the past two or three years and I have got to think that this is an isolated issue that can be repaired one way or another.

I left the truck at the dealer today just to get the ball rolling sooner than later. Lets see what happens.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Well I heard back today about my rear end.

They took it apart to find the bith side carrier bearings worn, inner pinoin gear, and main gear worn due to improper installing of the carrier bearings. I was wondering how last time the pinion and carriers were bad but the main gear was not damaged?

If that is not bad enough, the SAME tech that did the work last time, is doing the work this time but know the shop foreman is involved so maybe that will help too. At least they are going to warranty the work done today for 12/12,000 so even after the factory 36/36 has been expired the rear end work will still be covered. Lets hope they get it right this time.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Well here is the update to the update.

The CASING is BAD. Today they put in all the new parts and guess what?? That is right, there was excessive clearences in several places inside the housing. HHHMMMM maybe they should have noticed that last time.

So now I am waiting to the new housing that is on BACK order. Maybe by Tuesday of next week that should have a status, not the parts, NO, just a status.
 
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