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Discussion Starter #1
Does this number seem unusually high? I have a feeling I might be getting screwed by my snow removal company.

I manage a 30-unit townhouse complex with approx 14,000 sqft of parking space. My Plow guy has been charging me for 2 tons of salt (sometimes 1) every time he comes out. Based on some light googling and checking Road Salt Calculators, It should only be a couple hundred pounds at most per application.... certainly not 2 tons (3+ lbs per sqft).

Can someone help me understand these numbers, or am I just getting hosed? Happy to be proven wrong here.

Thanks!
 

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Does this number seem unusually high? I have a feeling I might be getting screwed by my snow removal company.

I manage a 30-unit townhouse complex with approx 14,000 sqft of parking space. My Plow guy has been charging me for 2 tons of salt (sometimes 1) every time he comes out. Based on some light googling and checking Road Salt Calculators, It should only be a couple hundred pounds at most per application.... certainly not 2 tons (3+ lbs per sqft).

Can someone help me understand these numbers, or am I just getting hosed? Happy to be proven wrong here.

Thanks!
It is only about a .43 lbs per square ft. Which seems a bit high still but depending on conditions might not be out of the realm of possibility.
 

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Does this number seem unusually high? I have a feeling I might be getting screwed by my snow removal company.

I manage a 30-unit townhouse complex with approx 14,000 sqft of parking space. My Plow guy has been charging me for 2 tons of salt (sometimes 1) every time he comes out. Based on some light googling and checking Road Salt Calculators, It should only be a couple hundred pounds at most per application.... certainly not 2 tons (3+ lbs per sqft).

Can someone help me understand these numbers, or am I just getting hosed? Happy to be proven wrong here.

Thanks!

It seems you are dividing 14,000 sqr ft / 4000 lbs to arrive at your 3.5 lbs. Which is wrong. It is lbs per sqr ft, so 4000 lbs / 14,000 sqr ft = .28 lbs per sqr ft.

I have no idea if that amount is normal or not, just correcting your math
 

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Hah, yeah sorry about that, did that math backwards.

Here's a bit more detail (that's a bit more thought out)...

https://i.imgur.com/CoNRrYq.jpg

Here's a layout of the lot. Given where salt is usually applied vs the entire lot, we have an area between 14,000 sqft and 8,000 sqft. Standard application rates seem to vary quite a bit, but the avg i'm seeing is anywhere from 2-10lbs/1000sqft, with some people on forums like this talking about upwards of 20lbs/1000sqft.

Assuming an empty lot:

14,000 sqft (14x 1000sqft) = 285lbs/1000sqft (assuming 2 tons of salt)

Assuming a full lot:

8,000 sqft (8x 1000sqft) = 500lbs/1000sqft. (assuming 2 tons of salt).


Still seems abnormally high, no?
 

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Hah, yeah sorry about that, did that math backwards.

Here's a bit more detail (that's a bit more thought out)...

https://i.imgur.com/CoNRrYq.jpg

Here's a layout of the lot. Given where salt is usually applied vs the entire lot, we have an area between 14,000 sqft and 8,000 sqft. Standard application rates seem to vary quite a bit, but the avg i'm seeing is anywhere from 2-10lbs/1000sqft, with some people on forums like this talking about upwards of 20lbs/1000sqft.

Assuming an empty lot:

14,000 sqft (14x 1000sqft) = 285lbs/1000sqft (assuming 2 tons of salt)

Assuming a full lot:

8,000 sqft (8x 1000sqft) = 500lbs/1000sqft. (assuming 2 tons of salt).


Still seems abnormally high, no?
You could ask why so much and if your provider could reduce it.
 

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that's my next step. just wanted to ask around first and get a gut-check on the numbers.
What are the conditions like? Are you getting a lot of ice or just an average amount for this time of year? Also has the provider been doing this same amount for several years or is it a new change?
 

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Discussion Starter #8
What are the conditions like? Are you getting a lot of ice or just an average amount for this time of year? Also has the provider been doing this same amount for several years or is it a new change?
Location is Toronto, Canada.

Above average ice for sure, but not mountains of snow/ice. Given my estimates of 285-500lb per 1000sqft I just can't see how that's a realistic number.

Our provider charges us $180/Ton for salt. The standard is usually 1 ton per call (which still seems a bit high). They've never charged us less than 1 ton. Lately it seem that every call this year has been for 2 tons, which has aroused suspicion.
 

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Location is Toronto, Canada.

Above average ice for sure, but not mountains of snow/ice. Given my estimates of 285-500lb per 1000sqft I just can't see how that's a realistic number.

Our provider charges us $180/Ton for salt. The standard is usually 1 ton per call (which still seems a bit high). They've never charged us less than 1 ton. Lately it seem that every call this year has been for 2 tons, which has aroused suspicion.
Well, if you have 285lbs per 1000sq ft that would be 285x14 (14,000/1000=14 since you are doing it per 1000 sq ft) or 3,990 lbs almost 2 tons exactly (10lbs shy) and at 500lbs it is 7,000 lbs or 3.5 tons. While I agree 1 ton per service call seems more likely. That would be 142.85lbs per 1000sq ft. I would estimate 120lbs to 250lbs max per sq ft on your layout depending on conditions.

Either it never hurts to ask.
 

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Well, if you have 285lbs per 1000sq ft that would be 285x14 (14,000/1000=14 since you are doing it per 1000 sq ft) or 3,990 lbs almost 2 tons exactly (10lbs shy) and at 500lbs it is 7,000 lbs or 3.5 tons. While I agree 1 ton per service call seems more likely. That would be 142.85lbs per 1000sq ft. I would estimate 120lbs to 250lbs max per sq ft on your layout depending on conditions.

Either it never hurts to ask.
I understand that conditions vary wildly, and base on what i've found the big factors are amount of snow/ice(depth/volume) and outside temperature. Even with that information, I can't seem to find any source that recommends any more than 60lb per 1000sqft. Most figures I see are well under 10lb, a few sources talk about 20lb and only 1 said 60. 280+ just seems out to lunch.
 

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I understand that conditions vary wildly, and base on what i've found the big factors are amount of snow/ice(depth/volume) and outside temperature. Even with that information, I can't seem to find any source that recommends any more than 60lb per 1000sqft. Most figures I see are well under 10lb, a few sources talk about 20lb and only 1 said 60. 280+ just seems out to lunch.
Oops, I miss read your original statements. You could probably get away with 500lbs for the entire lot. At 14,000 sq ft 500 lbs would be 35lbs per 1000 sq ft. And 62.5 lbs at 8,000sq ft.

However, before you listen to the internet I would talk to the provider.
 

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What is the average weight of an unladen swallow? Holy cow! Too many numbers! Leave the #’s and google in the lab, this is the real world when it comes to de-icing a lot. There are to many variables that come into play. And $180 a ton? Are you serious? This poor guy has been losing money, no wonder he’s been charging you for 2 ton more often... he’s trying to make up some of the money he’s been losing. I feel for him but he obviously did not do his research to know how and what to charge, he sounds very confused. I would have to guess in TO he’s paying somewhere around $120/ton just for the product! Maybe more and that doesn’t include GST, ha ha. That = losing money. He’ll be out of business soon...However, it should NOT take 2 ton of salt to de-ice 14,000 sqft! Salting is a maintenance routine so there should never be heavy ice build up or a heavy snowpack on the lot. Even if there was, 1 ton would be more than enough to melt the worst of conditions on 14,000 sqft. You are by no means getting hosed you hoser, hopefully he has been using a lot less than what he thought he needed. Next time he applies salt take notice if there is a lot of salt left on the parking lot after everything melts, that’s a good indication he’s using too much or way too much( not good for the environment).I would advise to have a reputable, honest contractor give you an estimate. And...Go Leafs! The Sabers are horrible...again.
 

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Oh for crying out loud, yes you’re being taken for a ride, 2 tons of salt for just over a 1/4 acre per app is out of the question and most likely isn’t getting applied even though you’re getting billed for itThat lot shouldn’t take much more than 600 lbs per app which is like 270kg.
 

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Oh for crying out loud, yes you’re being taken for a ride, 2 tons of salt for just over a 1/4 acre per app is out of the question and most likely isn’t getting applied even though you’re getting billed for itThat lot shouldn’t take much more than 600 lbs per app which is like 270kg.
I think you are just jealous that you cannot apply 2 tons of salt as adroitly as this provider can.
 

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2 tons is wayyyyy too much and I don't care how bad the conditions might be. Shouldn't typically need any more than 300lbs of salt for an entire acre. And let's just say the conditions are REALLY bad, then I might up it to 500lbs MAX. Considering your lot is approximately a third on an acre, I'll say anywhere from 100-200lbs of salt. So, in short, he is 'applying' 20-40x more salt than you could possibly need. Even if you want to be extremely generous and say 500lbs of salt for the lot, 2 tons is still 8 TIMES that amount. I think you need to have a chat with him or find a new guy.
 

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2 tons is wayyyyy too much and I don't care how bad the conditions might be. Shouldn't typically need any more than 300lbs of salt for an entire acre. And let's just say the conditions are REALLY bad, then I might up it to 500lbs MAX. Considering your lot is approximately a third on an acre, I'll say anywhere from 100-200lbs of salt. So, in short, he is 'applying' 20-40x more salt than you could possibly need. Even if you want to be extremely generous and say 500lbs of salt for the lot, 2 tons is still 8 TIMES that amount. I think you need to have a chat with him or find a new guy.
A quarter of a ton of salt is nothing... I would so make it rain salt on that lot— 100 tons once and done for the season baby...
 
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