2 Tons of salt for 14,000 sqft parking lot? - Snow Plow Forum - Let's Talk Snow Discussion Forums

 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 16 Old 02-14-2019, 03:18 PM Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Posts: 5
2 Tons of salt for 14,000 sqft parking lot?

Does this number seem unusually high? I have a feeling I might be getting screwed by my snow removal company.

I manage a 30-unit townhouse complex with approx 14,000 sqft of parking space. My Plow guy has been charging me for 2 tons of salt (sometimes 1) every time he comes out. Based on some light googling and checking Road Salt Calculators, It should only be a couple hundred pounds at most per application.... certainly not 2 tons (3+ lbs per sqft).

Can someone help me understand these numbers, or am I just getting hosed? Happy to be proven wrong here.

Thanks!
Pat Kitchen is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 16 Old 02-14-2019, 05:47 PM
Senior Member
 
WalterFGBS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Catskill Mountains, NYS
Posts: 582
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pat Kitchen View Post
Does this number seem unusually high? I have a feeling I might be getting screwed by my snow removal company.

I manage a 30-unit townhouse complex with approx 14,000 sqft of parking space. My Plow guy has been charging me for 2 tons of salt (sometimes 1) every time he comes out. Based on some light googling and checking Road Salt Calculators, It should only be a couple hundred pounds at most per application.... certainly not 2 tons (3+ lbs per sqft).

Can someone help me understand these numbers, or am I just getting hosed? Happy to be proven wrong here.

Thanks!
It is only about a .43 lbs per square ft. Which seems a bit high still but depending on conditions might not be out of the realm of possibility.
WalterFGBS is online now  
post #3 of 16 Old 02-15-2019, 04:14 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pat Kitchen View Post
Does this number seem unusually high? I have a feeling I might be getting screwed by my snow removal company.

I manage a 30-unit townhouse complex with approx 14,000 sqft of parking space. My Plow guy has been charging me for 2 tons of salt (sometimes 1) every time he comes out. Based on some light googling and checking Road Salt Calculators, It should only be a couple hundred pounds at most per application.... certainly not 2 tons (3+ lbs per sqft).

Can someone help me understand these numbers, or am I just getting hosed? Happy to be proven wrong here.

Thanks!

It seems you are dividing 14,000 sqr ft / 4000 lbs to arrive at your 3.5 lbs. Which is wrong. It is lbs per sqr ft, so 4000 lbs / 14,000 sqr ft = .28 lbs per sqr ft.

I have no idea if that amount is normal or not, just correcting your math
cwren2472 is offline  
post #4 of 16 Old 02-15-2019, 05:40 AM Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Posts: 5
Hah, yeah sorry about that, did that math backwards.

Here's a bit more detail (that's a bit more thought out)...

https://i.imgur.com/CoNRrYq.jpg

Here's a layout of the lot. Given where salt is usually applied vs the entire lot, we have an area between 14,000 sqft and 8,000 sqft. Standard application rates seem to vary quite a bit, but the avg i'm seeing is anywhere from 2-10lbs/1000sqft, with some people on forums like this talking about upwards of 20lbs/1000sqft.

Assuming an empty lot:

14,000 sqft (14x 1000sqft) = 285lbs/1000sqft (assuming 2 tons of salt)

Assuming a full lot:

8,000 sqft (8x 1000sqft) = 500lbs/1000sqft. (assuming 2 tons of salt).


Still seems abnormally high, no?
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	image.jpg
Views:	24
Size:	63.4 KB
ID:	29750  
Pat Kitchen is offline  
post #5 of 16 Old 02-15-2019, 07:12 AM
Senior Member
 
WalterFGBS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Catskill Mountains, NYS
Posts: 582
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pat Kitchen View Post
Hah, yeah sorry about that, did that math backwards.

Here's a bit more detail (that's a bit more thought out)...

https://i.imgur.com/CoNRrYq.jpg

Here's a layout of the lot. Given where salt is usually applied vs the entire lot, we have an area between 14,000 sqft and 8,000 sqft. Standard application rates seem to vary quite a bit, but the avg i'm seeing is anywhere from 2-10lbs/1000sqft, with some people on forums like this talking about upwards of 20lbs/1000sqft.

Assuming an empty lot:

14,000 sqft (14x 1000sqft) = 285lbs/1000sqft (assuming 2 tons of salt)

Assuming a full lot:

8,000 sqft (8x 1000sqft) = 500lbs/1000sqft. (assuming 2 tons of salt).


Still seems abnormally high, no?
You could ask why so much and if your provider could reduce it.
WalterFGBS is online now  
post #6 of 16 Old 02-15-2019, 08:12 AM Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Posts: 5
Quote:
Originally Posted by WalterFGBS View Post
You could ask why so much and if your provider could reduce it.
that's my next step. just wanted to ask around first and get a gut-check on the numbers.
Pat Kitchen is offline  
post #7 of 16 Old 02-15-2019, 09:25 AM
Senior Member
 
WalterFGBS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Catskill Mountains, NYS
Posts: 582
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pat Kitchen View Post
that's my next step. just wanted to ask around first and get a gut-check on the numbers.
What are the conditions like? Are you getting a lot of ice or just an average amount for this time of year? Also has the provider been doing this same amount for several years or is it a new change?
WalterFGBS is online now  
post #8 of 16 Old 02-15-2019, 09:28 AM Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Posts: 5
Quote:
Originally Posted by WalterFGBS View Post
What are the conditions like? Are you getting a lot of ice or just an average amount for this time of year? Also has the provider been doing this same amount for several years or is it a new change?
Location is Toronto, Canada.

Above average ice for sure, but not mountains of snow/ice. Given my estimates of 285-500lb per 1000sqft I just can't see how that's a realistic number.

Our provider charges us $180/Ton for salt. The standard is usually 1 ton per call (which still seems a bit high). They've never charged us less than 1 ton. Lately it seem that every call this year has been for 2 tons, which has aroused suspicion.
Pat Kitchen is offline  
post #9 of 16 Old 02-15-2019, 09:43 AM
Senior Member
 
WalterFGBS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Catskill Mountains, NYS
Posts: 582
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pat Kitchen View Post
Location is Toronto, Canada.

Above average ice for sure, but not mountains of snow/ice. Given my estimates of 285-500lb per 1000sqft I just can't see how that's a realistic number.

Our provider charges us $180/Ton for salt. The standard is usually 1 ton per call (which still seems a bit high). They've never charged us less than 1 ton. Lately it seem that every call this year has been for 2 tons, which has aroused suspicion.
Well, if you have 285lbs per 1000sq ft that would be 285x14 (14,000/1000=14 since you are doing it per 1000 sq ft) or 3,990 lbs almost 2 tons exactly (10lbs shy) and at 500lbs it is 7,000 lbs or 3.5 tons. While I agree 1 ton per service call seems more likely. That would be 142.85lbs per 1000sq ft. I would estimate 120lbs to 250lbs max per sq ft on your layout depending on conditions.

Either it never hurts to ask.
WalterFGBS is online now  
post #10 of 16 Old 02-15-2019, 09:47 AM Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Posts: 5
Quote:
Originally Posted by WalterFGBS View Post
Well, if you have 285lbs per 1000sq ft that would be 285x14 (14,000/1000=14 since you are doing it per 1000 sq ft) or 3,990 lbs almost 2 tons exactly (10lbs shy) and at 500lbs it is 7,000 lbs or 3.5 tons. While I agree 1 ton per service call seems more likely. That would be 142.85lbs per 1000sq ft. I would estimate 120lbs to 250lbs max per sq ft on your layout depending on conditions.

Either it never hurts to ask.
I understand that conditions vary wildly, and base on what i've found the big factors are amount of snow/ice(depth/volume) and outside temperature. Even with that information, I can't seem to find any source that recommends any more than 60lb per 1000sqft. Most figures I see are well under 10lb, a few sources talk about 20lb and only 1 said 60. 280+ just seems out to lunch.
Pat Kitchen is offline  
post #11 of 16 Old 02-15-2019, 02:28 PM
Senior Member
 
WalterFGBS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Catskill Mountains, NYS
Posts: 582
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pat Kitchen View Post
I understand that conditions vary wildly, and base on what i've found the big factors are amount of snow/ice(depth/volume) and outside temperature. Even with that information, I can't seem to find any source that recommends any more than 60lb per 1000sqft. Most figures I see are well under 10lb, a few sources talk about 20lb and only 1 said 60. 280+ just seems out to lunch.
Oops, I miss read your original statements. You could probably get away with 500lbs for the entire lot. At 14,000 sq ft 500 lbs would be 35lbs per 1000 sq ft. And 62.5 lbs at 8,000sq ft.

However, before you listen to the internet I would talk to the provider.
WalterFGBS is online now  
post #12 of 16 Old 02-21-2019, 08:06 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: buffalo,ny
Posts: 48
What is the average weight of an unladen swallow? Holy cow! Too many numbers! Leave the #’s and google in the lab, this is the real world when it comes to de-icing a lot. There are to many variables that come into play. And $180 a ton? Are you serious? This poor guy has been losing money, no wonder he’s been charging you for 2 ton more often... he’s trying to make up some of the money he’s been losing. I feel for him but he obviously did not do his research to know how and what to charge, he sounds very confused. I would have to guess in TO he’s paying somewhere around $120/ton just for the product! Maybe more and that doesn’t include GST, ha ha. That = losing money. He’ll be out of business soon...However, it should NOT take 2 ton of salt to de-ice 14,000 sqft! Salting is a maintenance routine so there should never be heavy ice build up or a heavy snowpack on the lot. Even if there was, 1 ton would be more than enough to melt the worst of conditions on 14,000 sqft. You are by no means getting hosed you hoser, hopefully he has been using a lot less than what he thought he needed. Next time he applies salt take notice if there is a lot of salt left on the parking lot after everything melts, that’s a good indication he’s using too much or way too much( not good for the environment).I would advise to have a reputable, honest contractor give you an estimate. And...Go Leafs! The Sabers are horrible...again.
miles is offline  
post #13 of 16 Old 02-24-2019, 10:35 PM
Member
 
ajslawnandsnow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: In my Truck
Posts: 51
Oh for crying out loud, yes you’re being taken for a ride, 2 tons of salt for just over a 1/4 acre per app is out of the question and most likely isn’t getting applied even though you’re getting billed for itThat lot shouldn’t take much more than 600 lbs per app which is like 270kg.
ajslawnandsnow is offline  
post #14 of 16 Old 02-25-2019, 03:15 PM
Senior Member
 
WalterFGBS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Catskill Mountains, NYS
Posts: 582
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by ajslawnandsnow View Post
Oh for crying out loud, yes you’re being taken for a ride, 2 tons of salt for just over a 1/4 acre per app is out of the question and most likely isn’t getting applied even though you’re getting billed for itThat lot shouldn’t take much more than 600 lbs per app which is like 270kg.
I think you are just jealous that you cannot apply 2 tons of salt as adroitly as this provider can.
WalterFGBS is online now  
post #15 of 16 Old 02-26-2019, 06:10 AM
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Posts: 2
2 tons is wayyyyy too much and I don't care how bad the conditions might be. Shouldn't typically need any more than 300lbs of salt for an entire acre. And let's just say the conditions are REALLY bad, then I might up it to 500lbs MAX. Considering your lot is approximately a third on an acre, I'll say anywhere from 100-200lbs of salt. So, in short, he is 'applying' 20-40x more salt than you could possibly need. Even if you want to be extremely generous and say 500lbs of salt for the lot, 2 tons is still 8 TIMES that amount. I think you need to have a chat with him or find a new guy.
KasD is offline  
post #16 of 16 Old 02-26-2019, 11:39 AM
Senior Member
 
WalterFGBS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Catskill Mountains, NYS
Posts: 582
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by KasD View Post
2 tons is wayyyyy too much and I don't care how bad the conditions might be. Shouldn't typically need any more than 300lbs of salt for an entire acre. And let's just say the conditions are REALLY bad, then I might up it to 500lbs MAX. Considering your lot is approximately a third on an acre, I'll say anywhere from 100-200lbs of salt. So, in short, he is 'applying' 20-40x more salt than you could possibly need. Even if you want to be extremely generous and say 500lbs of salt for the lot, 2 tons is still 8 TIMES that amount. I think you need to have a chat with him or find a new guy.
A quarter of a ton of salt is nothing... I would so make it rain salt on that lot— 100 tons once and done for the season baby...
WalterFGBS is online now  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Snow Plow Forum - Let's Talk Snow Discussion Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Parking lot sweeping grasshopper Snowplowing Discussions 14 11-13-2016 10:52 AM
$2,000,000 insurance per accident? Rocket Business Discussions 10 01-16-2010 06:01 AM
Parking Lot Clean-Ups Rocket Off Topic 8 03-23-2006 11:58 AM
Parking Lot Rocket Snowplowing Discussions 4 11-10-2005 07:05 AM
Ice Control on parking lot Tileman De-Icing 7 03-22-2004 05:08 PM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome