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Old 01-24-2005, 02:58 PM
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Fisher Insta-Act

This is my second season plowing with my Fisher 8' MM2. The controller is Fish-Stik. Recently there are only a couple minor issues that make me think there may be a minor problem with the valve, specifically right angle.

Since I bought the plow, it seems that everytime when I am plowing and need to angle to the right just a bit, the plow will continue to angle all the way to right even after I have released the angle button. This has becoming annoying and I'd have to momentarily hit the left angle button to stop it from angle furthur more. It does not act that way when plow is in raised position, so I assume that it only happen when there is some force applied against the plow, even from the weight of plow itself when scraping on "clean" pavement. I don't remember if it does the same thing if I try to angle to left when plowing because I rarely do that.

Another thing is the cold temperature. When it get in single digits and below, the plow fluid get thick and work slowly (it has ATF fluid). However it did not move at the same speed. Raising and angling to the left will moves slowly but at about the same speed respectly, but when angling to the right, the speed is like 5x slower.

Both of these minor issues could be related to right angle valve so that's where I am looking at. However I need to know if this is NORMAL for Insta-Act to "act" that way?

Think about it, if I angle to the right with plow raised, it will stop angling as soon as I release the button. So that mean the angle valve has closed. But when plow is down on ground and plowing and I want to angle more to the right, it will keep on angling all the way to the right with button released. So I guess for some reason the angle valve is still open, but why? Could it be related to "float" mode? Of course I don't see how it could be related about plow angling extremely slowly to the right when it is very cold. Usually after angling it back and forth for several times the speed get better.
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  #2  
Old 01-24-2005, 03:08 PM
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Stephen ,
I do not experience those symptoms . The only thing I notice is the plow sometimes will not center exactly when I think it should have . Its always moves slightly to the right . Maybe there is some relationship .

I do not have a degree in chemical engineering , but maybe there is a need for the Fisher Hydraulic fluid . I think ATF would be there choice if it was the best to use . Volume of ATF production would mean cheaper $$$ to repackage for even higher profit

Maybe you should email Brian Simmons at Fisher ?
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Old 01-24-2005, 04:01 PM
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Not normal.Could be a one of a couple things
Bad relief valve or out of adjustment
Cylinder leaking internally
Cartridge valve sticking
Possibly a controll problem with the PC board still sending current to valve slightly after release(try another controll to eliminate that)

When it's raised,can you get out and push the blade to the right?
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Old 01-24-2005, 04:12 PM
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I have the fisher fluid in mine.Changed twice this year and when it gets really cold i get a loud whine type noise when i try to angle the plow and it seems to be slower.As i continue plowing it goes away.Ive been to two fisher dealers and both places say nothing is wrong
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Old 01-24-2005, 04:26 PM
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Thank you everyone. I thought that perhaps I should have try using the Fisher fluid but jt5019 comment does not support that. Arc, I will be sure to check that out tomorrow afternoon after I get home from work. Right now the plow is unhooked and we have another storm coming Wednesday so I'll be hooking it up again. Will keep you guys posted.
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Old 01-24-2005, 04:26 PM
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Get rid of the ATF and get some Fisher brand fluid. ATF is good for regular winter temps, but tend to thicken as the temp. drops into the single digits. The Fisher fluid is chemically engineered not to thicken when the temp. drops.

Now as for your problem with regards to angling, did you service (i.e. change the hydraulic fluid and clean the intake screen in the tank) the plow this year? If not, do so and remember to use the Fisher fluid. When you say the plow continues to angle to the right, is it angling under power, even after you release the button? If so, then the circuit board within the controller may be defective. If the motor stops when you let off the button, but the plow continues to "drift" over to the right, then you have to take a look at the S2 solenoid valve in the manifold (this is the middle solenoid behind the plastic cover on the rear of the manifold). The first I’ll explain how the hydraulic system works with regards to angling to the right. When you depress the Angle Right button, 12VDC is applied to the S2 solenoid coil (shifting the valve) and pump motor solenoid under the hood. Hydraulic fluid is pumped from the tank, through the S3 solenoid, through a pilot-operated check valve and into the base of the left side angle cylinder. The retracting right side cylinder pushes fluid out of its base, back into the manifold body, through the S2 solenoid valve, which directs it back to the tank. When you let off the Angle Right button, 12VDC is taken away from the motor relay, which disconnects the circuit and stops the pump. At the same time, 12VDC is taken away from the S2 solenoid coil, which returns the valve to its "de-energized" position. In this position, fluid from the right side cylinder is "blocked", which subsequently prevents the right side cylinder from retracting any further. Solenoid cartridge valves (which every manufacturer uses) are very temperamental when it comes to clean fluid and electrical contacts. If the valve or fluid has any foreign particles within it, this may be preventing the valve from closing completely, which in this case, will allow the fluid to continue to pass from the right side cylinder back to the tank. If the fluid is clean and the valve is still “sticking” open, then you need to do a coil test, which is covered in the Mechanics Guide for the Insta-Act system. This manual can be found on Fisher website at: http://www.fisherplows.com/pdf/26504_050099.pdf.

As I said, if you haven’t changed your fluid, do it before getting into testing and cleaning the S2 valve. I’ve had the same problem in the past with some of my Fisher plows and a quick fluid change usually solved the problem. Also, Fisher designed the “Fish-Stik” to have a “soft return” for the functions. Basically, when you let off either of the angle buttons, instead of the valve(s) being immediately being de-energized and shifting, they are gently returned to the de-energized state. This is why you cannot really “bump the plow” (i.e. quickly moving the stick from Right to Left to clean off the snow) like you can with the joystick control, which does not have the “soft return” feature. Combine a dirty valve (slow to return to the de-energized state) and a feature that doesn’t take away the full 12VDC right away, and the time it takes for the valve to close greatly increases.
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Old 01-24-2005, 06:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by jt5019
I have the fisher fluid in mine.Changed twice this year and when it gets really cold i get a loud whine type noise when i try to angle the plow and it seems to be slower.As i continue plowing it goes away.Ive been to two fisher dealers and both places say nothing is wrong


Simple.........


DRY DEEP COLD = Cold Raw Metal on Cold Raw Metal = Squeeks and whines from the angle cylinders..........


I had that on all the equipment this storm..........Lubricated all the angle cylinders with some ZEP TWISTER while in the shop and angled them back and forth a few times and it went right away


Jay
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Old 01-26-2005, 08:41 AM
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Quote:
Get rid of the ATF and get some Fisher brand fluid. ATF is good for regular winter temps, but tend to thicken as the temp. drops into the single digits. The Fisher fluid is chemically engineered not to thicken when the temp. drops.
I agree 100%. All our Fishers came from the same dealer, and they always use regular old ATF. Every year we simply followed their lead and changed the fluid with plain old ATF. After reading about the Fisher Fluid on this site we changed all our units (MM's, and MM2's) to the Genuine (blue) Fisher Fluid. The plow does work much better in real cold temps. Even though it was expensive for us ($120), for the guy with one plow I think it's only $7 per quart X 3 quarts.
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Old 01-26-2005, 05:13 PM
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Wow, some good information here, thanks! I did what Arc asked me to do, and the plow won't move when manually pushed. Interesting, it did not act up today when plowing. Temperature at that time was around 25 degrees. Maybe it is just the plow fluid itself.

I'd be happy to switch over to Fisher fluid, but what about synthetic ATF? Will it work as good (or close) as the Fisher fluid?
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Old 01-26-2005, 05:18 PM
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I think I will now use the Fisher Blue instead of the Fisher regular fluid
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Old 01-26-2005, 06:00 PM
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Did I missed something because I didn't know Fisher have two different type of their branded fluids.
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Old 01-26-2005, 06:00 PM
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My understanding is that the Fisher Fluid is not compatible with ATF. So, if I were going to change over to the Fisher Fluid I would need to drain not just the pump butthe rams too. Would I then need to also flush the system before adding the blue fluid? If so how do I drain the rams and flush the system?
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Old 01-28-2005, 12:48 PM
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To completely flush the plow system, drain the pump first then you have to remove the ram hoses from the pump and then manually push the plow to push out the fluid. Might be a good idea to clean the screen too.

After reading this, I definitely will be changing to Fisher fluid (the blue stuff that I never heard of). Probably will have to wait until spring because it is damn too cold out here. By the time it get warm the season will be near over. Thanks for your help guys.
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Old 01-28-2005, 01:09 PM
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I would like to know why they say it is not compatable?

You never will get all the fluid out of the system unless you disassemble everything and flush it clean.
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Old 01-29-2005, 03:40 AM
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Synthetic ATF will work as good as "plow oil" for about 1/2 the cost. All that blue color is dye, you can get oil in several diferent colors.
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Old 01-29-2005, 03:43 AM
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by wxmn6
[B]To completely flush the plow system, drain the pump first then you have to remove the ram hoses from the pump and then manually push the plow to push out the fluid.


Dealer told me this is the best method to drain system
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Old 01-30-2005, 06:34 AM
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I installed my '02 Fisher Vee with the Fisher "clear" fluid that was available at the time. I've used that for fluid changes until this past September, when my dealer had the new "blue" fluid. I think the cost was around $23 for a gallon. I did the changeover as described above: drain pump, disconnect all hoses at pump, manually swing wings to remove fluid from angle pistons, reassemble, fill and top off as per instructions in Fisher manuals.

We've had several storms with extreme cold (for this area, 10 F) and everything worked well.

Ed.
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Old 01-30-2005, 06:37 AM
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Hey, they just made me a member!

Where's the club house?
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Old 01-30-2005, 10:26 AM
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Stephen,I told you last week to get that ATF out of there . Seriosuly the synthetic fluid is well worth the extra money.Its pennies when you consider what we have invested in our equipment.It reduces strain on the plow motor,alternator and truck batterys substaintially. I found that western fluid is cheaper,by the gallon here,and its the same stuff.I use the western fluid in my MVP,and fisher MM.I run whatever blue synthetic Jerre put in the 810.
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Old 01-30-2005, 10:56 AM
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I have also noticed the Western Fluid is cheaper and more widely available here (suto parts stores carry it) Funny because we are in "Fisher Country"
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Old 01-30-2005, 05:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by CT18fireman
I have also noticed the Western Fluid is cheaper and more widely available here (suto parts stores carry it) Funny because we are in "Fisher Country"
A LOT of Western parts are cheaper than Fisher,check out the light harness prices when you do a swap,the Western harness(same thing as the Fisher) is always cheaper,i have no clue why either.
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Old 01-30-2005, 07:22 PM
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Your right. I was just looking at the "suggested" price guides from both Fisher and Western. (nice dealers here)

Almost all the common parts are cheaper for Western. Odd because the profit should be the same.
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Old 02-04-2005, 05:24 PM
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I think the Meyer fluid is the same and will work as good as the Fisher fluid.
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Old 02-05-2005, 04:47 AM
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The fliud could be mnufactured by the same company and just repackaged
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Old 02-05-2005, 05:39 AM
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I have about 4 quarts of the Meyer fluid. I have used it in my old Fisher and plan to use it in my new Fisher too.
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